Well, with that, I’m forced to meta-game Nanooks situation, and contemplate the chance that he is a pro-town role that’s been given both a monster of a post-restriction and a must-get-voted-or-die condition.
Earlier today, I briefly considered that his role was a curveball thrown to us by Og, in order to shake up a complacent town (a la Storytellers’ zombies in Apocalypse). But if thats the case, Og doesn’t appear to have left him an out, or if he has, Nanook isn’t taking it.
I don’t find what he’s claiming to be likely, so I’ll change my position, and request that nobody vote for Nanook today.
Okay, I decided NOT to comment on any Day One posts since I figured a lot of it would be irrelevant (and, as it turns out, much of it was). Interestingly enough, I came out of reading that Day with two primary suspects, Zeriel and ok11.
The first, I think was largely touched on by others, but I also wanted to note that she soft-claimed vanilla townie at a couple points, while also making a few other “I’m a townie” sort of phrases and makes a point of mentioning that she’s always town and people always accuse her of not being town. This all stinks badly to me of a scum setting up a townie claim later and using those as points in her favor at that time. Add to the wishy-washy nature that others have already pointed out, and she’s my top suspect entering Today.
The ok11 thing is a bit different, and I wish I’d been around to hold her to it more, the whole semi-mason claim psuedo-gambit really stunk to me. If she saw it as a breadcrumb, as she claimed to, setting herself up to also look like a mason really doesn’t gain anything, but certainly had the distinct possibility of getting the mason’s later to turn on her when they all discovered eachother or, as the mechanic wasn’t known at the time, that that’d know she wasn’t one of them. Further, if she’s scum of sort, she potentially set herself up to be able to make a mason claim later which would have been extraordinarily difficult to diffuse given the actual mechanic. However, most of my suspicion was diffused with the whole JSexton fiasco I read (though I’m not completely caught up on everything), becasue I think it pretty much means she has to be vanilla town OR some non-targetting pro-town role.
For the sake of this point, let’s assume you’re town. Is it possible that the whole mason thing that I picked up on was what you caught? I could easily see you seeing her as being some sort of scum investigator, possibly picking up Ped as a mason, and looking for crumbs to try to pick up on.
Gambit make sense, and I support them, but I don’t think this one was as well played out as you seem to imply. First off, you’re almost certainly not a pro-town power role of any importance (eg, why would the doctor risk himself and possibly having to claim over a gambit like that). So that leaves us with vanilla or weak power role pro-town role OR scum.
If you’re vanilla or weak power role pro-town, I can support a gambit in this case because otherwise you’re not much use. I’ve done similar things in other games myself. If you’re right and he’s scum… so what? If you’re wrong, it’s REALLY bad. First off, one watcher is already dead, so some believability is already gone there because you have to explain us having a second one. Second, you had a high degree of being wrong and either getting a bad result (as you did) or a disastrous result like if you’d happened to pick a doctor or some other pro-town role and forcing him to claim. If you DID happen to be right, what’s his reasoning for not acting like he didn’t do anything either? You didn’t have anything to fall back on and it’s also entirely possible that someone IS scum and didn’t actually do anything (especially since we don’t know what powers they have and how their ban mechanics work). The problem is, you RISK outting a town power role, and you also risk essentially forcing the town to waste a lynch on you because you LIED to the town. So sure, I believe in gambits, but a gambit always has a reasonable balance of risk and reward, and I don’t think they come close to balancing in this case.
If you’re scum, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but there are a few possibilities. Maybe you got a doctor lead on her? If that’s the case, I could totally see trying to out her, forcing her to self-protect the rest of the game, and if you’re wrong, pulling the whole “why would risk putting so much attention on himself” line, which you did. OTOH, you are right that scum just don’t do that sort of thing, especially not early in the game and while all things seem to be going well for them.
Bottom line, I do see it as a distinctly anti-town move, but considering I think it’s boneheaded whether he’s pro-town or anti-town, I really don’t see a good reason to make much of it at all just yet.
Hey, I actually fake-claimed a different scum role in the Batman game. I also deliberately bussed someone I was pretty sure was town as town in another game. How’s that work for you?
It’s not just your role. It’s your roleclaim. It just reeks of PFK. You’re caught in a hard place, so you claim in an attempt to get town on your side. You’re trying to make it look like you have a townier role, because you can’t come out and say you’re PFK. You know what you remind me of? Hush. He was caught in the awkward position of having publicly attacked someone and tried to explain it off as a Vig, like your incredibly awkward vote requirement and your claim of “not on the list but really really powerful”. You, like he, claim to have a post restriction.
Hush was PFK. A serial killer, to be exact. There’s almost sure to be a serial killer here, given the propensity of vigs to claim/wait day 1. And I’m thinking it’s you. I don’t want you to stick around and steal the win out form under us. I am passionate about it because I’m almost sure I’m right.
As for ‘not necessarily following conventions’, conventions exist because they’re the most likely. Sure, story in apocolypse was town, but the original Necromancer was PFK. Sure, the masons in Batman had a solo win, but everywhere else (I’ve read) they’ve been completely town. Sure, Professor X was scum, but look at the Batman scum lineup: Batman, Batgirl, Robin, Nightwing, Alfred, and Commissioner Gordon. Convention exists for a reason, and we’ve already seen some serious breaches in it already. You breach convention too much, you end up with a lopsided, unfun game. (See the 5 traitor setup from Gastard Mod)
Your argument consists of: Sure, it looks like a PFK role, but that’s why its not. In fact, I have a huge powerful role I’m not allowed to talk about. :dubious:
I’m not buying it.
I’d be fine with a JSexton lynch. Nevertheless:
-I’m a noncounterclaimed, backedupclaimed mason, and
-I’ve never read Bladerunner
I’ve got a question for Nanook: If you can’t talk about your role, why can you say “I am not the Joker from Batman. I do not have a killing role based on people voting for me or anything of that nature.” (Post 329) and “I can say with absolute certainly that my role is not Troll.” (Post 333) and “I know no one will believe me, but I guarantee you that my powers do not involve any kill, Day or Night. Well, other than my own if my conditions aren’t met.” (Post 520)
You do mention in post 532:
But he could talk about his role, he just couldn’t talk about it truthfully. If you’re trying to draw a parallel here, that makes one wonder if you’re trying to imply that you do have a killing role with rolename “Troll”…(if “one” is “Kat”, that is)
Lest this be seen as fishing, I will point out that he’s gonna die if he doesn’t talk. Also, unless the punishment for violating the “Don’t Talk About Fight Club” restriction is death, Nanook is better off spilling his guts if he’s pro-Town. If he just loses his powers or something, that’s still better than death.
In fact, even if the punishment is death, it might be better to spill his guts and give us the info, since he’s headed for death anyway.
I’ve got a another question for Nanook, but I’d like him to answer this one, first.
This is a perfect description of the Blade Runner in Blade Runner, actually. Which is why it’s kinda a neutral thing–it’s plausible, but because it’s a carbon copy (well, plus the vote thing) of something done before.
I see I’m not the only one re-reading Nanook. Kat made the specific points I was going to, but I’d like to add that I get the distinct impression that he’s making this up as he goes along. In addition to his early anti-claims (ie this is what I’m not), the only reluctance I see is that of a player that doesn’t want to reveal his role… there’s no indication that he can’t talk about his role at all, or even any evidence that it’s on his mind. Even if he was reluctant to even hint at a post restriction, I would expect to see an awareness there that would be evident in hindsight. It isn’t there.
With that in mind, and since Day could end at any time… it’s entirely possible that he’s lying about risking death if he’s not voted for. I said before, I’m quite willing to take him at face value that he wants votes, the only question in my mind now is why. Bomb? Charged power? Mad hatter/plague carrier type?
I STRONGLY encourage you all not to vote for him, and while I don’t generally like to suggest actions to power roles, I really hope we’ve got a Vig to give him some attention Tonight, because if not, I think we’re going to have to deal with him Tomorrow.
To continue with my train of thought from before, note once again that as soon as JSexton loses the lead, he gets put right back on top.
Hey Nanook, why do you make the choice only between JSexton and Zeriel? See what you did there? You said you’re not sure that JSexton is scum, but that IF the choice was between him and Zeriel, you’d vote for him, and then you do. But why was your choice only between the two of them? Why not pedescribe, who you seem much surer of? If the day ends in a tie, JSexton would still be banned since he got the lead first, so why did you need to break the tie?
In the Blade Runner game, the most powerful Town role (limited cop, vig, etc) was the Blade Runner, Deckard. He had a severe post restriction–anything that could be construed as a truthful claim would cause him to become vanilla.
I gather that’s what Nanook’s trying to claim for his role. On one hand, it’s plausible because it’s been done before. On the other hand, it’s easy for scum to copy because it’s been done before. Null tell, IMHO.
The matter of his vote thing is specifically dis-included from this analysis. =P
Okay, just got back from the gym and checking over my work, I realized I forgot to mention a couple of things in my last post.
First, I mean to put in a vote, so I’ll put it on my current top suspect, so… Ban Zeriel. I’m still about 100 or so posts behind, so I reserve the right to change that if anything else had come up between where I left off and when I catch up.
Also, I wanted to touch on the Nanook thing. Unless he’s made available any information to give us a better read, I agree with the general sentiment to test him. That said, I did have some other thoughts on him as well. First, he claimed his name wasn’t on the list and, IIRC, our illustrious mod said that it was a list of possible names not a list of ALL possible names, thus it is a point in his favor. Further, there ARE things that are not on that list that I think would be perfectly reasonable to include in this game (snarkers being the prime example that came to mind). However, given that I’d also think the best example of names not on that list are also most likely to be PFKs if they’re included in this game (as what snarker wouldn’t bask in the destruction of the dope), I’m far from convinced that he’s pro-town.
So on that front, Nanook, if you’re pro-town, I hope you will, if not already, provided us with some reason to trust you, because as it stands, I do think it’s unlikely that you’re scum, but I also think you’re our best PFK candidate, and getting rid of a PFK candidate without using a lynch is in the town’s best interest.
And, one more thought, I want to state that since the evidence seems pretty clear that everyone has a screen name in addition to a role name, I will consider any claim lacking a screen name to also be lacking in credibility. There are a few exceptions, such as the Charter Members where they’re independently verifiable without the names and there’s a small possibility that a false claiming scum may attempt to use a name similar to one of theirs.
I think that’s everything on my mind for now, so… back to catching up.
WHOA! Where did you read this? I specifically remember him saying that he wouldn’t give ANY information about his power. I also don’t recall anyone else saying anything about their powers that’s even remotely similar to that. This stinks VERY badly of Perfect Information Syndrome. Interestingly enough, given the starting color that there’s likely a pair of PFKs, and that I think Nanook is PFK, it fits in well that you might be his partner.
Not sure if anyone else caught this and what you’re response was, so I’ll hold off on a vote until then, but damn, if I was reading in real time, this is HUGE.
Is this in reference to my last post? If so, I wish you hadn’t have done that. FWIW, I don’t know who that references or if it does, nor do I know who Peeker’s name referenced, if it references anyone. However, I do know that we’ve seen a reference to Jerry, Tuba Diva, and Roosh.
The point of my post was, a name lends no credibility to the Charter Members since they’re essentially confirmed in my eyes (or VERY ballsy AND lucky scum), but the names COULD reference relatively well known dopers that are not entirely unlikely to be possible name claims for scum, particularly if they have a name that won’t make a good claim and, thus, have to try using another name (like if the scum are trolls, and they each have names of well known trolls).
Duh… maybe I should have read at least the next post before I responded. :smack: Oh well…
I do not agree with this and, in fact, will look suspiciously on anyone who votes for Nanook. No sufficient discussion has been raised about how trustworthy he is especially in the face of the concensus that we should test him today. In essence, any one person who votes for him is distinctly going against the general town will, and that is an anti-town act. If someone wants to vote for him, fine, raise discussion and say why, but don’t just vote for him.
I disagree with this reasoning. The whole point is that a claim is easier to believe when it is not made under the threat of death. As such, whether town or anti-town, if he is remotely telling the truth, it was in his best interest to get it out early. Beyond that, it’s in his best interest to make other players know that it’s not a good idea to vote for him unless we intend to lynch him. If we decide he’s scum and want to vote him, we can just pile on whenever, but otherwise, if we later decide that he’s pro-town and many people had voted for him at various times, all these extra votes would ultimately make it more difficult for us to keep him alive.
On a similar note, I seriously doubt he has a shoe problem. If he does and he’s telling the truth, he’s already given us part of his role with the whole vote restriction. So, if he does have a shoe problem, it’s only about certain parts of his role, which is just bizarre if true, or he doesn’t have one. Besides, with his whole spite statement earlier, it seemed pretty well implicated that he COULD tell us, but was choosing not to because he was punishing poor play.
IME, this has been less true in the SDMB games. In fact, we’ve had several where it’s just the scum that kill and no specific person. Given that we had a watcher killed, I think it’s a fair assumption that the kill mechanic is one where a specific scum was chosen to do the kill, but there’s insufficient evidence as to whether or not we have many vanilla scum. It’s entirely possible that we have ALL vanilla scum and just the killer is chosen, or that the scum have a godfather (who is unlikely to have a target ability) and thus wouldn’t show up either. I realize there are scum role blockers and investigators and all sorts of things, but I just don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that there’s likely to be few if any scum that have no night actions. The only thing that we have any evidence for at this point is that one is doing something, but we know nothing of the rest.
So, I think it makes it probably more likely that she’s town (though, based on the last post I read from her, maybe not), but it certainly doesn’t make her not scum. It just means she most likely didn’t do anything.
Dude, are you dyslexic? This is the second time you’ve done this Today with mixing up names.
First off, since he’s already way ahead, why NOT put a vote on him? You can always unvote later if you change your mind, except this way doesn’t leave a vote trail.
Second, you hadn’t addressed the point that Zeriel (I think) brought up, and one that I also mentioned about where you got the idea that Nanook could copy powers.
