Uhh, you guys realize almost nothing is changing, right? There will still be Orca shows. All that’s changing is the content, reflecting a “conservation” theme
From what I read on a circus forum from elephant handlers is circus elephants perform a vital service as work animals similar to how a farmer would use his horses to pull wagons and such. Many trainers talked about how good the elephants were about picking up and moving things and seemed to relish their role. Also they said they often took them down to local car washes to get clean.
I think the idea with modern training techniques is to take whatever natural behavior they do and just get them to do it more often.
But I’m guessing they will still want Shamu to jump up high creating this huge wave and getting people wet?
Here in Kansas City they did something similar with the sea lions. Years ago they did some circus style shows with them like balancing a ball on its nose and playing horns. But now its very boring because it has to be all “natural” and all they really do is swim over and get fed. They used to also do circus acts with the elephants but that also stopped and now they just walk and stand around all day in their enclosure.
Frankly I don’t think kids really need to see elephants wearing cloth decoration on their heads and forming bizarre daisy chains. That spectacle was old 50 years ago. NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/us/ringling-brothers-circus-dropping-elephants-from-act.html
I suspect that Barnum and Bailey is merely keeping up with the times. They don’t exhibit freak shows any more either. Cirque de Soleil makes great money with a one ring circus and no elephants.
Again, if a human is able to walk a Pachyderm through a car wash, he has to dominate him, which means laying down the smack regularly.
I understand that they are safer for the handlers and more comfortable for the elephants who no longer have to deal with the Hook. Don’t get me wrong though. I’m not exactly outraged. Barnum and Bailey are phasing the elephants out over 3 years which sounds reasonable to me. I suspect they also want to freshen up their show.
I think performing sea lions are ok, since I doubt whether it’s necessary to kick their ass to get them to balance a ball on their nose. I’m not sure whether such a show would fit well into a modern zoo though. I see that the Kansas City Zoo breeds elephants. You can’t do that if a human has situated itself at the top of the herd. Then again, wiki says the elephants do painting and demos so maybe it’s more complicated. It probably is.
I’ve seen elephants that were dominated by people that also had a baby born to the herd. So I’m dubious.
And yes, Ringling Bros has used the elephants to carry (pull) the circus trains from than tracks to the performance site, and to erect the tents. I suppose they will switch to trucks.
Thing is in other parts of the world elephants are still used as beasts of burden. Google “Elephants working” to see images.
So in that way an elephant is just a worker animal like a horse pulling a wagon or a dog guarding a home. Are those equally bad?
And speaking of horses, lets look at people that do equestrian sport riding or they call it “dressage”. The ones with the fancy outfits who ride the trimmed up expensive horses around the arenas. They have to MAKE the horses do the thing with their heads and tail pulled high. Or how about in rodeo where horses are trained to run around barrels or to pursue a calf. Isnt that also animal abuse?
Honestly,I watched a rodeo once, and I was shocked. A lot of it looked like animal abuse to me. Not the parts where horses were running in circles. And I wasn’t too upset by the guys jumping on calves, although I’m sure the calves hated that, and i think you could make a case animal abuse. But the part where they tormented bulls to make them buck was just brutal. All I could see was a terrified animal in pain for no reason.
It depends. Many people still practice old school animal training practices where you literally break the animal’s spirit before you teach him what you want him to do. That’s abusive, no question. But more and more (as time goes by) people are adopting positive-only training methods where you simply take the animal’s natural behaviors and teach them to do them on signal, or use gentle, patient methods to teach it to tolerate something that’s against it’s instinct (like a horse to tolerate having someone on his back). Think the Horse Whisperer guy. But this is taking the dog training world by storm also.
And then there is this: http://www.cavalia.net/en/our-philosophy#E4vyxxtgkAL2wFkS.97 for a breath-taking example of what you can do with equine performers with positive-only training. I went to the Odysseo show a couple years ago and it was a marvel. Unleashed stallions in the arena and the only separation between them and the audience was a 2-foot “wall”. We paid for the VIP tickets which got us the stable tour after the show. Since I volunteer in animal (dog) rescue, I pay close attention to the animals and the handler’s general attitudes to evaluate if the animals are well cared for. I was impressed with every aspect of this show. In the stable tour, in addition to the usual rules like no flash photography, the the general attitude from the handlers was “if you upset our horses we’ll kick your ass and then kick you out”.
I live in hope that we’ll continue to improve how we work with animals.
“Modern training techniques” for elephants consist largely of beating them with bullhooks.
These arguments closely echo claims made about human slaves 150 years ago:
[ul]
[li]Slavery does a lot of good; slave traders are heavily involved in rescuing captives in West Africa. Furthermore, we are uplifting savages and teaching them about God’s plan for them.[/li]
[li]Any argument against slavery would apply to all labor. Your Northern factory worker is also “enslaved.”[/li]
[li]We don’t have the resources to set these slaves free in society. don’t have the money to build improved slave quarters either.[/li]
[li]The South, over the decades, has been on a constant process of improving its treatment of slaves. We’ve tried to expand to new territories, but the North said no. Who’s the enemy of progress here?[/li][/ul]
And from another post:
[ul]
[li]Today the slaves at least have training and useful work to look forward to. Taking that away is also taking that away from them. I am not sure how much “freedom” they can handle, but I suppose they will adapt and find something else to look forward to.[/li][/ul]
If we can’t have human slaves then at least let us have orca and elephant slaves.
Just to nitpick, but a dog guarding a home is totally natural behavior. You would have to engage in very serious behavior modification to make a dog not guard a home!
Horses pulling carts, not so much. That’s not natural behavior.
No, because animals are not humans. Animals cannot engage in productive speculation about future events, nor enter into contractual agreements with their keepers.
This comparison is faulty and flawed, and, frankly, pretty offensive. It demeans human slavery to the level of keeping a cat in the house.
Right. The idea is to change the "shows’ to more model IRL “behaviors”. That’s fine. And, as long as we ban the further capture of Orcas for this reason, I am Ok with Sea World doing that.
Because of course, orcas are the same as humans, right?:rolleyes:
Orcas and elephants are among the most intelligent of the non-human animals. They may be up there with chimps and orangutans. No, not human, but not pet cats, either.
(Also, very few people beat their house cats, and it would generally be againt the law.)
Is anyone here supporting Seaworld in everything they used to do? No. But if you take your average moggie who has lived indoors for all it’s life and just let it go, it’s life will be nasty, terror-filled and short.
We can’t just let the orcas go. Seaworld should take care of them humanely.
ISTM that for your position to be internally consistent you’d also have to ban captive breeding as well.
Hardly, but I agree, that might be a good idea also.
"Shows’ should only be "behaviors’ like they do at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, under the purview of real marine Biologists.