Sea World San Diego ending Shamu orca shows

The problem is that orcas that have been a long time in captivity are probably no longer capable of fending for themselves in the wild. Rehabbing whales has not been often attempted, and I can’t recall hearing about a truly successful case (the released animals still hang around humans, apparently hoping for a hand out).

Again, we can’t simply turn these animals out into the open sea. That would be cruel and fatal either sooner or later. If they must be in a cage we owe it to them to make that cage as comfortable as possible.

Something frequently forgotten is that when freak shows were discontinued, even outlawed in certain areas, the freaks themselves protested. For many of them it was not only how they made their living, it was the only way for them to make a living. So instead of earning money they were relegated to living on welfare. Which is not to say their lives were wonderful, many of those people weren’t going to have wonderful lives due to serious medical problems and disabilities, but it did take away one of their options.

Of course, there’s a significant difference between a human making a choice and an animal that isn’t given a choice.

But I wonder how many of these activists consider what will happen to these animals after the show closes down.

Elephants are intelligent. In the wild, they use that intelligence to navigate vast differences, find food and water, and solve typical elephant lifestyle problems. In captivity they get bored. They need something to do. As long as there isn’t coercion and the animals can start or stop at will I see such activities, even if “unnatural”, as perfectly OK and probably beneficial.

Some of the training given to large animals like elephants and sea mammals are actually done to make caring for them easier. It’s a lot less stressful for the animal if you can skip sedation and have the animal get onto something, show its paw/flipper to a vet on command, and otherwise streamline providing routine care and medicine.

In one case, this might have saved a human life. Apes in the Brookfield Zoo have been taught to bring foreign objects that wind up in their enclosure to the keepers, usually get a reward of a favorite food item. When a boy fell into the enclosure one of the apes picked him up, carried him over to the door, and handed him to the keepers unharmed (other than injuries sustained in his fall). Of course, we don’t really know what was going on in the gorilla’s mind and various factors came into play for that, but I suspect the animal being at least somewhat comfortable around humans helped. So some training is really beneficial to all concerned. It reduces stress and fear on all sides and that’s a good thing.

It depends on the how the animal is treated. Making a cart carry a person or pull a cart is no more (or less) inherently cruel than asking a human being to work for a living. Abusing the animal, making the animal perform beyond its strength or endurance, THOSE are abuses.

Having ridden horses and having had some basic dressage training myself (and make no mistake, it involves training the rider as well as the horse) no, that’s not inherently abusive, either. It can be, but it’s doesn’t have to be. A lot of the signalling in dressage involves the rider changing how they sit/balance on the horse. Misuse of heels/crops/reins is not tolerated by professionals, or competent amateurs.

Horses running obstacles is a re-purposing of evasive maneuvers used by prey animals to evade predators. Jumping is a perfectly natural horse activity. Running is a perfectly natural horse activity. What’s unnatural is carrying something on their back or pulling a cart/wagon, but domestic horses have been bred for thousands of years to tolerate such work, they aren’t wild equines anymore, not even ferals like Mustangs.

Taming an animal having it interact with humans is not inherently abusive. Animals in captivity undergoing training or learning tricks is not inherently abusive. Giving an intelligent animal nothing to do all day - THAT is abusive.

Dubiousness is good, as most of my sourcing is from an article written and read during the 1990s.

But wiki says FWIW, “Elephants in captivity are in most cases Asian elephants captured in the wild. Selective breeding of elephants is impractical due to their long reproductive cycle, so there are no domestic breeds.” Doesn’t quite contradict your claim, but I’m wondering whether your baby was captured originally. I know that at least one zoo in the US had an elephant pregnancy once they shifted to a hands-off policy, though the baby didn’t survive long.
To be clear though, I don’t have a problem with elephants doing lame tricks per se. My problem is that humans have to beat the crap out of them if they are to routinely share an enclosed space with them without getting curb stomped, to apply some hyperbole. Boredom among captive animals is an issue, but I’m dubious that bellhooks are the answer.

I don’t have a problem with trained horses or dogs, as those are domesticated animals that don’t need to have their asses kicked to keep their handlers safe.

I retract my claim. Houston had a policy of free contact (rather than protected contact) as of 2011, at least according to this post. They had an elephant pregnancy in 2014.

Kudos to puzzlegal for expressing healthy skepticism.

I think that also has to do with medical advances. For example they can separate Siamese twins. Prosthetics can help cripples walk. Midgets (now called Little People) have more options.

Freak shows might not be at Barnum and Bailey but their are still several independent freak shows out there.

TryFreak Show on AMC which shows the Venice Beach Freak show.