Second Hand Smoke is too bad for you

The BBQ Pit
161

Poly, I have to ask - did you read the surgeon general’s report (or at least its major conclucions) before analogizing this debate to homosexuality, abortion and so on? All those other issues are fought on the basis of perceived general harm or benefit to society. Secondhand smoke is a direct public health issue, with nearly 50,000 deaths a year in this country linked to secondhand smoke, from causes including heart disease and cancer.

I sense this view in more than a few smokers, who choose to see laws as a personal affront, instead of what they really are - a continuance of our history of protecting citizens from public health and workplace threats. Once upon a time, proposed legislation against child labor and horrible workplace conditions was considered an assault on personal liberties. Those laws are now accepted, as widespread public smoking bans will be in the future. And we will wonder how we tolerated smoky workplaces and public venues for so long.

The surgeon general’s report addresses the claim (seen in studies financed by the tobacco industry) that bars and restaurants are in financial straits due to smoking bans. The claims have been refuted (there are studies accessible on PubMed demonstrating the continued health of the industry under bans, and I’ve linked to them in past threads). Anecdotes such as the one you related do not reflect current realities (Waiters and waitresses, incidentally, have some of the highest exposure rates known to secondhand smoke. Neither they nor the other people in bars (including service workers and deliverypeople) should be obliged to breathe in secondhand carcinogens and toxins.

If there truly is a separate, ventilated area for smokers that keeps smoke away from the large majority non-smoking population, fine - if businesses want to provide it, there should be no objections from nonsmokers. The historic problem has been that such separate zoness do not contain smoke - it filters out into surrounding areas. The surgeon general’s report addressed this point as well.

A simple point, yes - but again, a false comparison is made if secondhand smoke is declared an issue akin to homosexuality etc. We have regulatory protections set up in our society to protect people from health and workplace hazards that “infringe on personal liberties”. If you want to be consistent, speak out against mandatory vaccinations, requirements for filters for industry smokestacks, bans on hazardous machinery that amputates workers’ limbs and so on.

We tolerate mere annoyances around us every day - screaming kids, blaring cellphones and the like. We used to tolerate secondhand smoke when it was just considered an annoyance.

Now we know better - it kills people. The number of people exposed to secondhand smoke in the U.S. has dropped in the last 20 years or so from close to 90% to approximately 40%. We’re going to work to keep that number dropping, through appropriate laws and education.

162

Beer - you used to be a pretty fair debater, but you’ve lost it.

Even for the Pit, you’re behaving like a jerk. An evasive one, at that.

163

Well, only 30% of American workers are working in buildings where smoking is permitted. So, you’re well on your way.

Or, maybe it’s your responsibility to stop walking in front of the firing line at the range.

164

Whatever.

165

So it’s a self-imposed limitation. You’re still allowed to go there if you want to. You choose not to.

166

The sidewalk is akin to a gun range? The parking lot?

And you wonder why you’ll eventually talk people into banning the behavior entirely.

167

What strikes me about the Surgeon General’s report is that it addresses SHS in the home and in the workplace. SHS is an known carcinogen and toxin in the home and in the workplace, and yet the smoking-ban Nazis continually complain that even small amounts of smoke anywhere, even 500 feet away, outdoors, is killing them.

Honestly, people, if even the tiniest wiff of diluted smoke is killing you, then go ahead and die already. There are those of us who deliberately concentrate and inhale the stuff on a regular basis and we’re still alive. Consider it a sort of Darwinism. :wink:

168

Just much smoke are you running into in the parking lot and on the sidewalk? I live in a pretty small town, so it ain’t like the sidewalks are packed with people like Chicago, or any other large city, but I do have occasion to visit places like that. And really don’t remember these expansive clouds of noxious gas that you seem to be saying are so harmful and forcing you to smoke. The few particles of tobacco smoke you’re gonna inhale in the middle of a crowded city probably ain’t any worse for you than the tons of automobile exhaust. Besides, of you’re behind a smoker on the sidewalk, it’s really pretty easy to move away from him - speed up and get past him, stop for about 5 seconds and let him get farther ahead of you, or cross the damn street.

And like tdn notes, the Surgeon General’s report is only about passive smoking in the home and workplace. It says nothing about outdoor air quality. Or even enclosed spaces where one isn’t spending a large portion of their week.

169

:rolleyes:

So your argument is what? You want the freedom to go to a public location to damage your body but no one else can help?

Such bullshit.
Personally myself I think they should outlaw smoking AND alcohol.

Sure. My smoke might get into your tender, weak lungs and cause health issues but there is a better chance of you having one extra drink and, with impared judgement, get into a car and run my ass over. Why should I have to increase my risks on the road because of you need to drink alcohol?

170

How much is too much? You said it was a couple of molecules creeping into my office. I get a lungful of cigarette smoke a couple of times a day from places I can’t avoid.

I’m not looking for additional legislation. I don’t like breathing in your shitty smoke, but it’s not ruining my life. I do think additional legislation is coming, and I also think that smokers have brought it on themselves.

Smoking should not be illegal, just as having a shooting a gun should not be illegal. Harming someone with either better have a damned good reason behind it.

Is the level I encounter every day harming me? I don’t know and neither do you.

171

Consider me boggled that you don’t see a difference between choosing to do things to yourself and having people do them to you without your permission.

172

So, you admit your fears aren’t rational. That’s an excellent reason to curb the liberties of 300,000,000 people.

173

Now who are you talking to and what argument are you inventing?

174

Taken the norm as a ban on the workplace and indoor public places. What else do you think is needed? What are smokers doing that is bringing it on themselves? Are you saying that you want a total ban on smoking apart from a persons private property?

175

How much plainer can I be?

176

No- 50,000 Deaths per year- those are excellent reasons to curb the liberties of any number of people. Smoke if you want- just so as *no * non-smoker has to breathe it.

177

Yeah but you’re saying that more legislation is coming and that smokers have brought it on themselves.

Should they be allowed smoke on the street while walking in front of you? If not how are you going to stop them without laws? Are they annoying you at the doors of buildings? How are you going to stop them without laws.

If you don’t want any more laws how are you going to stop people doing something that legally they are perfectly entitled to do.

178

I believe it.

You said “given workplace laws.” Well, we don’t have smokefree workplaces in most of the US. That’s the sort of law that I think is coming.

179

Exactly. There is a bar near my house that plays music extremely loudly. My husband and I went there once, couldn’t have a conversation, and left with our ears ringing. It was very unpleasant & probably wasn’t too good for our hearing. So, guess what? We have never gone back there! We didn’t demand that they turn down the music because we think we have the right to have that bar provide the atmosphere we want. The guy who owns the bar has a clientele that goes there because they like it…if we don’t, we need to find something else to do.

180

Cool, got my wires crosses then. We have the law in Ireland and I hear about CA and NY a lot when people talk about this with regard to the states.

This smoker has no problem with workplace and indoor public area bans.