I just shelled out seveeral hundred bucks to have a plumber come out to my house and hydro-jet the secondary sewer pipe in my kitchen (or whatever you call the pipe that takes the outgoing water from the kitchen sink to the city swer line). There was a fair amount of orange sludge that came out during the job, and the plumber mentioned that it was a sign that the seconardy pipe was rusting. “That’s going to have to be replaced eventually,” he said, and tossed out a ballpark figure of $3,500 to replace all the secondary lines in my home with long-lasting plastic pipes.
Well, I’m not doing anything yet, especially since the existing pipes are still working right now, but I’m curious; if and when I do need to replace those secondary pipes, what kind of work is involved? My house is built on a concrete slab with no basement, so I suspect that some of the work will involve digging up the concrete and laying new pipe, right? Are the pipes actually embedded in the concrete when the house was built, or does the slab have grooves for the pipes to go? And what’s the worst thing that can happen to these seconary pipes, anyway?
Well, IANALC, but if there is a leak, it could cause a big sink whole causing the slab to be unsupported and then crack and the whole house fall into a big pit of waste. But that’s a worst case scenario.
On TV, when they had to do some work on a slab with pipes, they used a diamond saw to cut a narrow section of concret over the pipe, then used a jack hammer to break it up to reveal the pipe, replaced the pipe and then filled it back in. They were "Y"ing into an existing plastic pipe, so it might be different if they have to go all the way outside.
Why were the pipes hydro jetted? How old is the house (or how old are the pipes)?
I would think that hydro jetting would knock off quite a bit of rust and make it look like you had a serious problem when in fact you don’t. Cast iron pipes can last for several decades.
While the main pipes are indeed under the slab, the risers certainly are more accessable for inspection. If they are cast iron also, I’d look at those and determine if they are close to rusting out before I went to the expense and trouble of replaing the drain piping.
Also, the plumber would know that the hydro jet would cause a lot of rust to be dislodged, and by making sure you saw this he could suggest additional work that isn’t really needed. Ask for references and see how previous customers ‘knew’ that their pipes needed replacing.
During construction, the pipes are typically installed in a trench below grade, with the risers placed where they need to be. Then the trench is backfilled with dirt and compacted. The concrete slab is placed over this backfilled trench, so the pipes are under the slab, not encased by it. The concrete will have steel wire mesh and/or steel rebar in it.
When it’s repaired, you want to be sure that the old slab is saw cut rather than chipped away with a jackhammer. The new pipe should be sand bedded, and then backfilled and compacted. The concrete should be repaired with steel dowels cored into the old slab every 12 inches or so, so the new concrete is tied to the old slab.
The pipes were jetted because the kitchen sink was getting severely backed up. We had had the kitchen’s secondary line roto-rooted about 18 months earlier, and the guy at the time suggested a jetting as well. There certainly was a lot of black sludge from the jetting yesterday, and the plumber also asked me when was the last time I had the pipes cleaned.
The house, BTW, is about 35 years old; I’ve only moved in about two years ago, so I have no idea when they were cleaned previously.
Yeah, my father mentioned the same thing to me last night. I’m beginning to worry less about the rust than before.
And to be fair to the plumber, I didn’t get the sense that he was trying to spook me into getting the secondaries replaced right away. The closest he came to a scare tactic was “It’s a good thing you had the jetting done now, because if you had waited longer, then the jetting wouldn’t do any good and you’d need to get the pipes replaced anyway.”
Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. Hopefully I won’t need anything done in the near future, though.
I don’t know about where you’re from but in PA the “secondary” pipes don’t run seperately to the city sewer except in special cases. They usually tie into the main house sewer line and are not typically long runs of pipe.
I’ve been in the sewer business for over ten years and have seen cast iron pipe that’s a lot older than that still holding up strong. It’s normal for the pipe to have some rust inside of it anyway. The only reason to replace it would be if you keep having problems with it in a short period of time.
Kitchen sink lines are by far the filthiest lines of all and they all usually have black sludgy grease in them. The best way to keep them clean is to use plenty of water. You have to keep in mind that whatever you shove down there has to travel quite a distance before it’s out of your system. I usually tell people to fill their sinks up once in awhile and then let the water go all at once, which flushes the line.
If you have a garbage disposal only put cooked foods down there. Raw foods don’t break up as easily. And when you use it, run the water for a minute or so afterwards. The worst stuff to put down there is RICE, banana peels (or anything stringy) and potato peels.
Also, they have cameras available now that can be sent down your line so you can visually inspect it without digging the whole thing up. They even have transmitters built into them so you can pinpiont the trouble spot or trace out the line itself, including a depth measurement.
(Sorry for the long response but I never get to answer sewer questions)
I had a plumber scare too. I had roots (and still do) that get into the line to the cesspool. He came out and rooted it, and got the cesspool pumped. Said we have a ‘mudout’, meaning a serious break in the line and it had to be replaced soon for thousands of dollars.
I am pretty sue we didn’t need the cesspool pumped out, though I was most likely due (normal maintance), and it had been 7 yrs and no colapse of the main line, so I assume no ‘mudout’. I did rent a rotorooter 2 times since then, but that was just to break up the roots.
My advice, have any plumber due what needs to be done to get things flowing again, thank him for his work and never call him again.
The pipes are under the concrete. Old codes required cast iron to be used under concrete but “most” new codes require PVC. I said most for I built my house a few years ago and the local code still required cast iron. I tried to get around it but I was forced to use cast iron. I think the local plumbers control the code and this limits a lot of the “do it yourself” for cast iron is not as easy to install.
But cast iron should last for many years. Before I replaced anything I would require they run the camera so you can see if it really needs replacing. And always get three estimates for major work.
In our other home we had a line from the laundry that connected to the drain from the kitchen sink. I had to clean about ever two years or it would start backing up in the kitchen sink when the washing machine dumped.
I’ve got that problem right now, and it drives my wife nuts. The plumber says the problem is that the line doesn’t have a vent pipe; I’m guessing that when the washing machine dumps, the air trapped in the pipe blocks the water from flowing at max capacity, and the excess gets backed into the sink. Does that sound right?
I hear ya – it pains me to say it, but it seems like plumbing is one of those contract jobs where I always end up feeling like I got ripped-off somewhere…
Yes, all drains are supposed to have a vent pipe and you are right about the air being trapped.
But the lack of a vent doesn’t cause my problem for I have a vent and still I have to clean the line every couple years. And I don’t think it causes your problem. In fact, I have another house that doesn’t have a vent at the washer. The only thing different is when the washer dumps there is a gurgling sound at the kitchen sink. (it is being forced to use the sink vent) It doesn’t back up in the sink but it did try to overflow the drain behind the washer. I then sealed the hose to the drain to stop the run over… no more problem. (the hose is not suppose to be sealed to the drain, but it works) When a washer dumps the pump moves the water out at a high volume and the least restriction in the line will cause a problem. Probably my problem on house #1 is due to poor installation.
