I’m aware of that.
Neither are most European countries nor do I think that’s a bad thing.
One can be non-secular without being a theocracy.
Anyway, are there any Western European countries where kids go to school on Christmas?
Thing about the blue laws: I’ve never thought of blue laws as being anything BUT religious. My family took a yearly vacay to Ocean City, NJ, which still has blue laws. Now I was 10, 11, 12, the house rental are always from Saturday to Saturday. We arrive on Saturday, unpack, go to first day on beach on Sunday. And. I. Want. My. Boogie Board.
Can I have one? Nope. Blue laws. As it was explained to me by store owners then and now, Sunday is a day of rest (Totally biblical, IMO). So no items of “recreation” can be sold on Sundays. No bucket and pail, no beach chairs, no beach ball. Stores in towns with blue laws have “items of recreation” in a large section of the store so they can be roped off on Sundays. Yes, you can have sun block because it’s considered medical. :rolleyes:
I consider these laws unconstitutional, but it’s a state thing, not a federal thing. So I guess there’s hand-waving at that too, much like how our money mentions a god, but not a specific one as others have pointed out. So the stores are secular Monday through Saturday, not Sunday.
So to say if secular America exists, I say it does… sort of. Six days a week. 
If it’s totally Biblical, perhaps you could cite chapter and verse.
Exodus 20:8-10 are the “day of rest” verses, traditionally thus,
I’m not sure, however, how that permits commerce in medical and other items, but not recreational. Seems to me stores ought to be shut entirely, if anything. And recreation is part and parcel with rest.
Yeah, thanks; my objection wasn’t to the concept of a weekly day of rest being Biblically based, but to the specific application (not to mention the notion that Sunday specifically was a day of rest).
[quote=“Thudlow_Boink, post:6, topic:666330”]
I think the OP is talking about the government being secular, as opposed to the individual private citizens.
While America was never a Theocracy, its culture, laws and local & national government(s), were steeped in the Judeo-Christian ethic. (de Tocqueville, a must read.)
Whatever America’s culture has become now (Slouching Towards Gomorrah a great read) will be reflected by the leadership it tolerates.
“My impression (from my admittedly limited point of view) is that, on the national level, the US government does a pretty good job of separating church & state, and living up to the First Amendment…”
Nothing could be further from the truth. Google, Obamacare vs religious freedom.’
Hear what pro-religious advocates have to say and the course of action they are engaged in.
Whining about their persecution fantasies, mostly.
FWIW, Germany and other European countries also have “Blue laws” restricting Sunday business activity on their books.
It depends on where you are. It could vary from room to room in buildings where there is no policy, building to building in districts with no policy, etc.
My personal experience was that we did it every day in three of my four schools and every Monday in the other.
I thought we were discussing religious fanatics not paranoid atheists.
On second thought, considering how many people believe there’s a “war on Christmas” and that Obama is “violating religious liberty” my comment was wrong.
The Supreme Court’s opinion in Marsh v. Chambers should answer you.
‘Whiners’ just complain and lack the fortitude to take a course of action on their own.
A summary for those of us that don’t have it memorized, please.
eta: mmmmm… Chief Justice Burger…
Um…the 4th commandment in most christian sects?
Athanasius noted that the stuff that remained should be moved from the Sabbath to Sunday to celebrate the resurrection.
Fascinating, but it fails to answer the question I initially posed: “First off, since when has ‘we’ve always done it that way’ ever been justification for an abrogation of individual rights?” I mean, really, that’s what his opinion boils down to: “We’ve always done it, so it must be okay.”
Additionally, I can’t find anything in Burger’s opinion regarding “solemnization” and how it is improved by having a sectarian prayer before commencing the people’s work.
I believe Brennan and Stevens were on the right side of things in this case, but alas, one is dead and the other retired, and the odds of their opinions holding sway are diminishing rather than improving.
Powers &8^]
Sure it does: at least since 1982.
It’s hard to tell because the successes in that area are mostly things that don’t arise in the first place, or haven’t in at least a generation or two. There are lawsuits over Decalogue displays, but I don’t think the “no religious test” clause has been explicitly invoked ince the 18th century – it hasn’t had to be. And there’s never been a state church on the Federal level, or Federal blasphemy laws.
We can all think of religious activities the government gets up to and shouldn’t, but it’s hard to point to ones that never occurred to it.
For a while when I was a lad, and back when NZ had blue laws, my folks owned a Dairy (err… a 7-11 ish shop). On Sunday parts were curtained off; some things could be sold, others not. One oddness I recall was that magazines were OK, but books were not… with the result that on Sunday one could not purchase a bible, but could buy a Playboy. 