Seeing eye dogs (and owners) rights to access public places

The ADA I know gives the blind and their work dogs access to most places, but I want to know how far it goes?

Can the dog enter a cat shelter during his work hours?

An aeral lift such as a chair lift at a ski resort (many are operated in the summer as tourist attractions)?

What are the restrictions, if any?

Would the dog be using the lift chair? or the blind skier and the dog?

I imagine the main restriction would be that you had to buy the dog a lift ticket.

Whenever I’ve seen blind skiers they’re being lead around by a human being, not a dog. Perhaps dogs don’t ski well.

Other than that - the dogs pretty much can go wherever people go. If a blind person had reason to enter a “cat shelter” then yes, the dog is legally allowed to enter as well - but the owner may elect not to for various reasons. Although the dog is not likely to take off after the cats (behaving under such provocation is part of their screening/training) you could have mass chaos erupt amongst the cats and someone - including the dog - could get hurt.

Another area where access might be questionable is an infection control/isolation area in a hospital where you have issues of the dog being exposed to disease, or possibly exposing a very vulnerable person to something the dog is (harmlessly to the dog) carrying. But in such areas even human access is highly controlled and restricted.

Also, blind people who use seeing eye dogs still carry a cane and are capable of navigating without the dog. When I’ve worked with blind people, when they’re in the office they usually “park” the dog in a corner of their work area and move around the offices without the animal. When appropriate, they might do a similar thing in an enclosed area. The dogs are trained to be as non-disruptive as possible. (I know of one dog who, after about 10 minutes of very very soft occassional whimpers, was found to have a standing commuter on a bus standing on the poor thing’s tail. Now THAT’S more tolerance than I would have!)

I know that guide dogs are not allowed in the zoo.

Broomstick you seem to have a good understanding on it (since you work w/ them) but are you really telling me that a blind person and his guide dog can demand to be let into a cat shelter cat room where the cats could cause some serious damage to personal (and dog), I’m talking about cat colonie, not caged cats. There must be some limit. And if the owner demands to be admitted w/ his dog, and there is serious injury who is responsible (morally and legally)?

Is it really up to the owner? and if so where does his repsonsibility lie?

You can demand anything - you just don’t always get it :slight_smile:

A private property owner can ban anyone from their property. The law on seeing eye dogs covers only public places, not private. If a shelter is privately owned they might have a leg to stand on banning a seeing eye dog from entering a “cat colony”. If it’s publicly owned probably not - but I don’t think many public shelters use colonies instead of cages.

I’d have to ask why the dog and owner are there in the first place… if cat adoption is a possibility then you definitely want to make sure cat and dog get along, which pretty much implies exposing them to each other on some level.

It’s probably a somewhat grey area in the case of the cat shelter. The law is pretty clear that the dogs can go places like restaurants where (live) animals are normally banned, or be unrestrained where animals normally have to be in a carrier (such as busses, trains, and planes). It would probably wind up in court. In order for the shelter to win they would have to demonstrate the dog, in and of itself, is posing a danger simply by sitting in a corner, or that the dog itself is somehow endangered. I don’t think you can say “Well, the dog might chase the cats or jump up and down and scare them” because these dogs, while on harness, don’t do that sort of thing. Sure, their butts might wiggle in desire to do those things, but they aren’t permitted or allowed (that’s why the big harness - to keep the dog under control) In the case of a cat colony you might be able to make the argument the dog just by being a dog poses some inherent danger. Or in a free-range gerbil colony or ferret farm. I don’t know if the issue has ever come up.

It’s rather like asking if a seeing eye dog can be taken into a room full of people with raging dog phobias. Legally, yes, probably, but it would be a really, really stupid idea.

You also have to remember that the owners become extremely attached to the dogs. I suppose it’s possible there are abusive seeing-eye dog users out there, but they screen the blind people as well as the dogs for compatibility. The blind people become very protective of the dogs (and vice versa) and are reluctant to put them into a situation where they know the dog is at risk of injury (the poor dears get injured often enough in the course of their work - their paws take a beating on city streets).

But if the dog causes damage or injury the owner is liable. Seeing eye dogs ARE permitted to pee and poop in places where dogs normally aren’t - if the blind person works in a Chicago Loop office building, for instance, it’s gotta go somewhere - but they’re also trained to “go” where commanded to. So the gutter of a city street is OK - the carpeting in the lobby of the building is not (once in a while the dog has an accident - but if it’s habitual the owner is at fault). Damage such as scratching, digging up carpet, and chewing on furniture would also be the owner’s problem - but these dogs are highly trained, I’ve never seen one do such a thing while “on duty”. Heck, the animals are compulsively well behaved off-duty, it’s kind of spooky.

The blind social worker I worked with was getting elderly and frail, and Chicago winters are so vicious, sometimes on really cold days she’d take Ebony off his harness and have me walk him on a normal leash at lunchtime. Mind you, he’s “off duty” (no harness) and I’m not his mistress, but he INSISTED we stop at EVERY road and driveway until HE checked out the traffic, steered me around every bump and crack in the sidewalk, and just generally acted as if he was on duty. Her husband told me how, when he took the dog to the park for some playtime (they need some play, too) and he threw a frisbee so it crossed a path the dog would charge after the frisbee, come to a screeching halt at the path, look both ways, then resume the chase. These dogs are, in a sense, never completely off duty.

If a seeing eye dog bites someone it depends on the situation - they are expected to defend their owner. One of the blind people I worked for was a social worker who used to work in the projects and some really rough neighborhoods. Her dog had bitten people twice - once when someone split his head open with a beer bottle, and once when someone was trying to rape her. In both instances the dog was removed, given a health checkup with examination of vaccination records, and it went to court. In both instances it was ruled justifiable self-defense and she got the dog back. But if a blind person “sicced” a dog on someone, or was training it to be vicious, the blind person could be held liable or even do jail time for assault. But, again, it would end up in court.

So, while there is considerable leeway you are correct, there are limits. But they’re pretty far out there.

Hi. Service/Guide Dog Trainer chiming in.

Service and Guide dogs are allowed, by law, anywhere their owners have to go. ANYWHERE. Even no-pets living quarters cannot refuse the application of someone who has a certified guide or service dog.

In the US, by law, the guide dog is considered a “tool” much like a wheelchair, a cane, or a prosthetic leg.

Regarding the cat colony: I doubt a blind person and their dog would really want to BE in a cat colony anyway, so I don’t think the question really applies… but by law, yes, the dog is allowed wherever his owner has to go.

The only place I’ve seen which will not allow a guide dog is an operating theatre, and some ICU units. Other than that, there are very FEW restrictions. Again, there are places you may not want to bring the dog in anyway. I used to visit oncology wards with my therapy dogs and service dogs in training, so there’s no issue there.

I’ve never seen anyone bring a service or guide dog skiing, but hey. Dogs are allowed up in gondolas, for example, to get from the bottom of the slope to the top chalet (I’ve done that with some dogs in training) and, for example, we do take SAR (search and rescue) dogs up on ski lifts. So, I guess it would be possible, assuming the dog knew how to handle the skiing part :wink:

As for the disabled partner being responsible for their dogs… an aggressive dog would never survive (pass) the training process in the first place. Defensive is one thing. Aggressive is another.

Interesting note: In the United States as in Canada, if someone willingly harms a guide or service animal, they will get their little legal asses kicked in a very serious way. New laws are actually in place for such things so that charges above and beyond “mistreatment of animals” can be laid. The dogs also get some leeway in their protective duties. Technically, such as in the “cat boarding facility” incident, the owners of the place should make sure the dog will not be harmed before it enters the building or else THEY could be responsible if anything happened to it (just as you would be if your biiiiig dog ran over someone in a wheelchair and tipped them over, causing them bodily harm.)

Any questions about guide dogs, rights, and training, fire away :slight_smile: That’s what I’m here for.

Elenfair, I’m curious as to whether there can be forced restrictions based on alternative help. For example, any time I see wheelchair-bound people entering an aircraft, they’re always helped to their seat and the wheelchair is stored elsewhere. I’ve seen what I’ve assumed to be blind people on aircraft from time to time, but never their dogs. So assuming airline personnel can replace the tool (as you say), can the blind person really insist that his dog ride in the aircraft with him? Similarly, if the dogs are just “tools,” couldn’t other accomodating places insist the owner leave the dog parked while providing alternative assistance?

FWIW, I think in most circumstances the dogs aren’t a problem, but in principle I believe in the old “your rights end where mine begin” adage. Also I’m a dog owner and lover (not physically!) just so you don’t think I’m some mean, old fart.

Balthisar: IIRC, the only extra thing required for a guide dog on an airplane is for the dog to be muzzled.

This seems like a good place for an answer: Guide Dog Users, Inc.
Information Center
.

Searching other sites, I discoverd that the service dogs aren’t permitted in the cabin during transoceanic flights, Lufthansa got some good reviews from Blind passengers, and the UK extends the definition of service dog to dogs employed by the Deaf also.

“Balthisar: IIRC, the only extra thing required for a guide dog on an airplane is for the dog to be muzzled.”

Is that new? I took my canine (hearing ear) on alot of planes. I didn’t have to get an extra ticket or muzzle. I ran through the airport once trying to get to the gate on time with her & one of their agents caught me but I produced ID & they let me continue on.