Seeking anything other than medical advice.

Severe vitamin D deficits do need high doses of Vitamin D2 to the tune of 50,000 units 3 times a week for 2 to 6 months. After this, one can switch over to vitamin D3 at 1000 to 2000 units a day, for about 2 or 3 cents a pill. But the deep vitamin D deficit must be made up, and that’s best done with the high dose, somewhat more expensive D2 product.

Sunshine is a good way to get your body to make vitamin D, but in the northern latitudes, the sun isn’t very effective at causing the body to produce more of it for 6-8 months out of the year. And the darker one’s skin, the more time one needs in the sun. There’s a fine line between “enough sun to make adequate vitamin D” and “too much sun, increasing the risk of skin cancer long term”. For fair skinned folks, 20 to 40 minutes a day when the sun is high above the horizon, on uncovered arms and legs is often sufficient.

Omega 3 fish oil, 1 gram three times a day, is a safe, cheap, effective way to try to reduce triglycerides, before starting on the more expensive fenofibrate (tricor) or the less expensive gemfibrizol (lopid). Just don’t bite open the capsules, it tastes fishy.

If B12 is just somewhat low, one could supplement with oral B12 tablets, which are cheap. But if the B12 is almost nonexistant, then the problem may be pernicious anemia, where the B12 is destroyed in the stomach. Then, pills won’t help, and shots are needed.

This information is meant not for your specific case, but is about the general case regarding these conditions. I am a licensed practicing physician who deals with these sorts of problems often, but I’m not your physician, so talk to your doctor.

Yes, just like any other drug. They might have a very long shelf life, but they certainly can and do degrade in time. It could be months, it could be years or decades, but it will happen in time. It isn’t recommended to take expired medications (and over-the-counter health-care vitamins and supplements should be considered as such, at least by the user!).

In the best case, a degraded drug simply no longer has any effect on the condition it is trying to treat (or undermedicates it). In the worst case, impurities and degradation products cause adverse/toxic effects and could aggravate a medical condition or introduce new problems.

I don’t know the rate of degradation of any particular medication, and even if I still worked in the industry, I couldn’t tell you if I did have access to this info.

There are also nasal sprays of hydroxocobalamin or cyanocobalamin (both versions of B12). I think they are indicated for pernicious anemia and other B12 deficiencies. I’m pretty sure cyanocobalamin nasal spray is available as a generic, but I’m not sure about hydroxo-. I don’t know much more about them other than that they are very pretty red solutions that are a bit of a bitch to clean out of a fume hood after doing dosage and spray pattern assays on them!

I’d really like to echo what others have said, especially regarding Qaqdop’s reason for the shots. I can’t offer why your doctor has prescribed these medications, but quite possibly they may be much more effective than what you can get through ‘natural’ means. It’s a little bit of a taboo in the medical profession for doctors to talk about finances (I mean, which doctor really wants think about the affordability of top-notch care?), but most physicians worth their salt will be more than willing to see if they can devise an alternate route of therapy that may be within your price range. Please talk to your doctor!

Would this also apply to sublingual tablets? I wouldn’t think they’d go through the stomach. Plus I’ve read that a certain type of B12 (?) in sublingual form at high enough doses can have better bioavailablity than the type usually used in shots (Cyanocobalamin, I believe.) When I couldn’t get my insurance to pay for the shots, I was encouraged to try that.

Perhaps you could clarify this. I was under the impression that the problem was not B12 destruction, but a problem with the production of intrinsic factor by the stomach, which is what allows B12 to be absorbed in the intestine. Does it get destroyed in the stomach if it’s not bound?

A relative has no stomach and gets B12 injections. The OP mentioned no deficiency symptoms, but they can be subtle (mild crankiness in my experience when a shot is skipped) if the deficiency is minor.

My review of the literature does indeed show that megadoses of Vitamin B 12 results in absorption via a non-intrinsic factor mediated pathway, and is as effective as shots/gels/sprays. It appears shots are cheaper than many current nasal gels or sprays, but may be competitive price-wise with megadosing. Megadosing involves taking 2000 mcg a day for up to 4 months, then maintaining on 1000 mcg a day.

I’ve not found much literature on the sublingual route, but if putting B12 gel up your nose works, I suspect sublingual routes could be viable too.

Lack of intrinsic factor results in any surviving B12 not being able to be absorbed in the ileum of the gut; at least not unless dosing is extremely high. Normally intrinsic factor binds with B12 in the stomach, prevents degradation of the B12 by stomach acids, and helps it get absorbed in the small intestine. Without intrinisic factor, or without a stomach, very large quantities are taken just so a very small percentage manages to be absorbed by other mechanisms.

I would be concerned if I were you and am glad you are taking steps to remedy this. I hope you are not a vegetarian. If you are - stop. I’ve heard of these same problems so many times in vegetarians and they do not bode well for your future health.

I know you are broke, but you are probably going to have to spend more money on food if you take my advice.

To lower your trigs (big risk factor for hear disease), skip the medication and cut sugar out of your diet. Limit your intake of flour and starches as well. It is impossible to have high trigs if you limit the carbs in your diet (I recommend around 100 grams per day). Avoid hydrogenated vegetable oils (soybean, canola, sunflower - they are in everything).

Replace them with the foods that are full of beneficial fatty acids and have the most vitamins and minerals for their weight - meat, dairy products, eggs, and vegetables. If you like liver and heart meat, eat it - it’s one of the most nutritious foods out there. A fish oil supplement is a great way to get omega-3. Don’t be afraid of butter and beef fat.

Animal products are where you get dietary B12. Seafood is the richest source but meat, cheese, eggs also have plenty.

D is very, very important. It’s bad enough to be under 30, I have never heard of anyone being told their D was ‘nonexistant’! If you can afford one thing I would go with this supplement and take it as your doctor recommended. The supplement is not scary - they come in bottles that dispense drops, and one little drop of (tasteless) oil will have 1000 or 2000 IU of D. You can put them in or on anything. 50 or 25 per day would be a walk in the park compared to swallowing capsules.

Sun makes vitamin D so get as much direct, non-sunscreened sun exposure as possible (without burning, of course! If you are burn-prone take care, start with 10 minutes at a time) during these warm months. I wouldn’t worry about sun cancer risk from tanning - having low levels of D is putting you are a big risk of many other types of cancer. Foods that contain significant amounts of D are rare. Sardines and herring have the most, dairy has some too.

I am glad you are aware you need to change these things. One of the many, many things D deficiency is linked to is asthma, BTW - it’s likely you’ll see an improval in this if you can get your levels up to adequate or even optimal levels. I know people who don’t have to use inhalers at all any more.

Sorry, didn’t make it back here for a few days, but I appreciate the advice and ideas. :slight_smile:

It looks like I might be able to afford the Vitamin D prescription so I’ll turn it in and see.

The B12 is “low” not nonexistent and I’m using sublingual tablets for that. Fish oil for triglycerides, got it. Not a vegetarian, don’t eat much sugar (but love me some carbs).

I didn’t know about the D-asthma relation, thanks. :slight_smile:

It’s a little cold here right now but soon I will be walking my dog again and that will give me some sunlight.

I left a message for my doctor yesterday at 3:30. Nothing yet. Probably should have given them my cell number (again). I don’t ever actually talk to my doctor other than when sitting in the office. I’m not sure she knows my name. (Yeah, I should fix that too but I’ve had her forever.)

The link is seen in kids. Evidence for a link in adults has not yet been shown.

Not to say it won’t be, though.

I’ve also successfully order the Tricor-equivalent generic from some of those mail-away Canadian pharmacies for a significant discount (I don’t recall exactly how much). I can’t advise you which ones are reputable ones, however, since this was several years ago.

J.

I’m not sure I would trust that. :slight_smile:

No doctor call back yet. I left a really long message too, I really don’t want to have to repeat myself.

FYI, I went through the 50,000 units of Vitamin D for 3 months, and after that my levels were back to normal, though my doc recommended continuing with 1,000 units a day OTC. I bought a bottle of 600 tablets (2,000 IU) for a shade over $10 at Costco, figuring a little more wouldn’t hurt. It’s pretty cheap stuff.

I’m curious to see what effect it has on my cholesterol, BP, etc. over time (though we made some minor dietary modifications, too, subbing more fish and beans and even less red meat and full-fat dairy).

QtM, when I looked around for literature on Vitamin D and various diseases/risk factors, it was difficult to sort out the crazy talk from the solid science. Any guidance you could provide would be appreciated. (Especially high cholesterol and BP; mine have historically been quite low, so I was surprised to be told how much it had creeped up. Of course this was the first time I’d been screened for Vitamin D levels, so it’s hard to figure out the correlation.)

On Costco’s pharmacy - many states have laws, basically stating you can’t have special pharmacies. Essentially, Costco pharmacies in lots of states are available to non-members as well.

Also, have you looked into buying online from a Canadian website? The reputable ones will request that you fax your script.

From: Annals of Internal Medicine

Doubtless, more data (and speculation) will be forthcoming.