Seeking YHO About Raleigh/Durham, NC

In My Humble Opinion
1

Or, better yet, Cary.

I don’t even know if we have any Raleigh/Durham area Dopers here anymore, with the unexplained absence of aenea and the banning of Satan ('sides, he hated NC and ended up moving anyway), but I’ll give this a shot.

Some time ago, I made the statement that, if I were to move back East, it would probably be North Carolina. Now, at the end of another friggin’ Phoenix summer, this statement has begun to echo more within my conscious. For anyone who would be so kind as to respond to this thread, I’ll outline my issues so that you may more easily address them. If you don’t feel like wading through all this, just skip to the last paragraph.

Why would I want to leave Phoenix? As I mentioned already, the heat is damn near unbearable during the summer. The falls/winters/springs are nice, but the summer heat, and the associated electric bills, are grating on me more and more. Also, the urban sprawl here and runaway growth are turning me off. My town, at 275.4%, was the second fasting growing city in the nation between 1990 and 2000. I have three Starbucks, four grocery stores (plus one under construction), and seven or eight gas stations within 1 1/2 miles of my house. I don’t need all this shit so close to my house. The road construction here is endless. I don’t want this paragraph to be construed as a whine; I’m just indicating what I’m dissatisfied with here.

Why would I want to move to the Southeast US? I grew up there, specifically the Atlanta area. My family: parents, sister, brother-in-law, nephew, and niece, still live there. I’m very close to my family, and would like to see them more than once or twice per year. In that vein it’s making me crazy seeing pictures of my nephew and niece growing up without Uncle Jeff around. Granted, Cary, NC is about a 6-7 drive from where my family lives, but at least it’s driving distance.

OK, so why don’t I want to move to Atlanta then? See Phoenix RE: heat, urban sprawl, runaway growth.

What is it about NC that appeals to me? The proximity to the Appalacians and some good hiking trails (although it’s still a three to four hour drive from Cary). Mountain biking, camping, and fishing would probably be nice too. Plus, that area of North Carolina has quite a burgeoning technology industry (or perhaps it’s already burgeoned?). Professionally, it would be a good fit. Climate-wise, I know the winters would be colder than what I’m used to, although probably not as severe as Chicago or Michigan. Also, I imagine the summers would be a lot more tolerable than what I’m used to, compared to Atlanta and definitely compared to Phoenix.

What else would I be looking for? A choral group to perform in: one that normally performs classical music. I’m not really into the choral arrangement of Broadway show-tunes thing, although that Porgy and Bess show we did was pretty awesome. (Then again, it was the original arrangement with solists; we just sung the choral backup. So there.) A decent cultural outlet (symphony, theatre, opera) even though I realize it’s no New York or Chicago. A good blues club. A good karaoke bar. Kids my age to play with.

(Anticipating how some of my friends here may react) I keep talking about moving, but never do. Am I some kind of a flake? Yes. Yes I am. The thing is, if I’m going to sell my house and move my butt across the country, I’m going to be damn picky about where I go and what kind of offer I accept. No company yet has matched my requirements. (Would it be too much to ask for a slight salary increase if I’m going to sell my house and move across the country? Sheesh!) Although I’ve noted a few companies I’d be interested in talking to, I would approach my own company first about possible outsourcing opportunities in that area. I like what I do; if I left my current job I would want something very similar to what I do now. Cary, and more generally Raleigh/Durham, seem to offer that sort of opportunity.

In summary, what is the Raleigh area of NC like? Is it sprawling, or progressing at a reasonable rate? Would I be able to find some good hiking and camping if I didn’t want to drive all the way to Asheville? Is there a good community chorus there? How’s the climate? How do you like it there? What are the people like, particularly in the early 20s to mid 40s demographic (not that I would limit my friends to just that age group)? I’d like to thank, in advance, anyone who responds to this thread.

2

Well, this is flimsy, but I have friends who live there now and have lived there in the past, and they have nothing but good things to say about it. I know Cary is a bedroom community for Raleigh/RTP. I don’t know about its own charms, but I am sure there are some.

Geographically, I love the area. You’re not far from D.C. or Atlanta. As you’ve noted, the ocean is close, whether you want Outer Banks or the SC beaches. Mountains aren’t far, either. There is enough of a “winter” that you know there are 4 seasons, but it’s not an unpleasant bitter cold.

All I ask is that you get a place with a guest bedroom. Cranky would like to visit!

3

Strainger,

  I lived in Cary for about a year, before then I lived in Greensboro, NC for about 2. You'll be able to find more hiking and camping than you can shake a stick at....lots withing just a few miles. The climate is very moderate(at least I think so, I'm originally from NoDak) with the worst that I saw an ice storm during the winter. The people are great, the early 20s to mid 40s demographic is well represented with tons of places to congregate. I don't think I've lived in a place that I've enjoyed as much as NC, it's a beautiful state. Oceans ~3 hours away...Mountains ~2, you can really live it up in NC. If you love zoos, Asheboro, NC has the biggest zoo in the country. It's absolutely incredible and only about a 90minute drive from the Raleigh area. If you have any other questions, feel free to email me...I'll answer what I can.

-Kaotic

4

I’ve lived in the area (Chapel Hill) for just over three years. It’s pleasant enough but definitely not a good place to avoid sprawl, unless you’re thinking of moving out into the countryside. Expect lots of road construction, lots of traffic, and public transportation ranging from inadequate to nonexistent.

Any special reason why you’re interested in Cary? The RDU area as a whole is nice enough, but Cary is the epitome of the characterless suburb, and has quite a few infrastructure problems resulting from rapid population growth. I’d look at Raleigh instead if you want to be near the center of things, or Carrboro or Hillsborough if you’re looking for a smaller town with a strong sense of community.)

The cultural opportunities are pretty good if you know where to look, though I can’t tell you anything about community choirs specifically.

As for climate, it’s probably a lot like what you’re used to, except the summers are hot and humid instead of hot and dry. Winters are nowhere near as cold as in Chicago or Michigan – you can expect to see snow once or twice a year, and that’s it.

In short, nice place, but I’m not sure it’s exactly what you’re looking for if you want to get away from heat and runaway growth.

5

A few thoughts that, in retrospect, are completely disjointed and probably unhelpful.

Cary is jokingly called the “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees.” It was recently featured in National Geographic, actually. Some areas of Cary have restrictive codes, such as one prohibiting you from leaving your car in the driveway for more than twenty-four hours. Some people I know who have lived Cary all their lives lie and say that they are from Raleigh. I think some people would describe it as a “beige” community.

Durham, although it has Duke University, has declined from what it used to be, although there are some very, very nice areas. My grandparents live there. I wouldn’t move there.
(It’s also confusing as hell to navigate the roads.) There is a growing problem with gang violence.

I’m a student in Chapel Hill. I would live either here or in Raleigh if I were settling permanently. Chapel Hill’s socio-political climate is completely, absolutely, totally off the chart from the rest of the state. It’s a great place. Chapel Hill proper, though, is pretty damn expensive. A small town that is contiguous with Chapel Hill (I often forget where the boundary is) called Carrboro is actually the most densely populated town in the state (a fact that may surprise many North Carolinians).

It is much easier, IMHO, to go to the beach than the mountains because traffic on the return trip on Sunday afternoon can add hours to your journey. The traffic can be unbelievably horrendous here, in comparison to the relatively smallish population.

I grew up in a small town in a neighboring county. Although you might not perceive Chapel Hill or Raleigh as the paramount cosmopolitan area, rural North Carolina is far, far less so. <shiver>

I realize that this post is fragmented and not really helpful. There are a decent amount of cultural opportunities in Chapel Hill (I play in the student/community orchestra). I know that there are a lot of choral groups in which you could participate, although I can’t name even one. Memorial Auditorium in Raleigh, I think, just initiated an opera series in its own seperate auditorium. Compared to the rest of the southern states, except perhaps Virginia and the Atlanta metropolitan area, I think that NC has the most cultural opportunities (largely because of the vast influx of northern employees who moved from large cities and wanted similar opportunities when the technology market was booming and they moved down here).

And no native calls it “Raleigh-Durham,” unless that person is talking about the airport.

6

Thanks to everyone who’s posted so far. I’ll address a few issues here.

Cranky:

Of course! Anytime!

Kaotic

Thanks for your input. I just may send you an email or two. When did you live in NC?

Fretful

Thank you for the suggestions and insight. The main reason I mention Cary is that it seems to offer the most professional opportunity as far as matching my skills and interests, even moreso than RTP. Obviously I wouldn’t have to live in Cary; I could commute from one of the other cities you mentioned. (Although I am kind of spoiled by the short drive to work I currently have. :wink: ) I’ll have to check into those three.

Fretful (again)

Well, I know that heat-wise, NC would be much more tolerable than Phoenix. (That whole “dry heat” thing is bullshit; take it from someone who knows.) I guess I’m wondering how the heat there compares to Atlanta, given that the humidity levels are pretty much the same between the two.

It would be naive to think that I could get away from urbanization and growth completely. I’d have to become a gas station attendant in Assboink, Idaho to do that. I just wonder how the growth there compares to where I live. It sounds like Cary may be undergoing the same growing pains my town is. Again, I would definitely consider the other cities you named as places to commute from. (This is assuming I would end up working in Cary. It’s quite possible that I would find something in RTP or somewhere else nearby.)

Thanks again, everyone!

7

Up until June of this year…I had to leave when the .com I was working for went belly-up.
-Kaotic

8

Hi, Strainger.

I’m a native North Carolinian. I grew up around the Charlotte area; I came to Raleigh to attend NC State in 1979, and lived there until I married and moved to Cary in 1991. I like the area, and I think it has a lot to offer. I’m going to go more on the devil’s advocate side here, and discuss some of the not-so-great sides of the area.

By the way, Cary was featured in an issue of National Geographic earlier this year, perhaps around May or so. (No pictures of naked natives, however.):smiley:

On your first issue of climate: I don’t know that NC is the place to escape the heat. Arizona may have us beat in terms of dry-bulb temperature, but we generally have pretty high humidity levels to go along with the temperatures. And, unfortunately, we no longer have clean air in the Triangle area — we have several ozone alert days per year. (Blame it on a lot of commuter traffic, and the fact that NC has a couple of the dirtiest coal-fired power plants in the nation. They were exempted for the Clean Air Act in the '70’s, ostensibly because they were old and would have been “too expensive” to upgrade, and were expected not to be in long term operation.) No, we don’t have smoky, sooty air; the ozone problem is invisible. Still, this makes this not a good place to come if you have respiratory problems.

Speaking of power plants — the Shearon Harris nuclear power plant is just down the road. Up until now, that hasn’t really bothered me all that much; however, with thoughts of terrorism these day, the thought of being smack dab between a state capital and a nuclear power plant doesn’t seem like the most secure place in the world. (It also is sort of disconcerting that I get a cute little brochure sent home with my elementary school children at the beginning of each school year telling me where they will be evacuated to in the event of a nuclear power plant incident, since their school is within the 10 mile evacuation zone for the plant.)

Also, if you’re trying to escape sprawl, I don’t know if Cary is the place to go. Once upon a time, it was a tiny little bedroom community to Raleigh; now it has grown quite a bit on its own. It has become a very affluent community. We live in one of the old neighborhoods of Cary; you will find there typical “starter” houses of 3 bedroom size, on maybe 1/4 to 1/3 acre lots. More recent neighborhoods contain large houses (of the $200 - $350K variety and on up) on significantly smaller lots. Most of these neighborhoods come with restrictive covenants — Want to paint your house? You have to run it by the neighborhood architectural committee. The town itself is pretty anal retentive regarding appearances, as well — recent examples include a restaurant being forced to remove newly installed blue awnings, because the other stores in the shopping center were burgundy, and they didn’t conform (or vice versa). There was a hilarious tempest in a teapot about the town council refusing to allow a retro 50’s “shiny diner” to be built, because it was too tacky; (it was finally built, but they insisted on lots of REALLY BIG BUSHES in the landscaping.)

If you want to get further from sprawl, you will probably need to move a bit further out, such as to Apex, Holly Springs, Fuquay Varina, etc. (No, I wasn’t being insulting. It’s a town, pronounced FYOO-kway Vuh-REEN-uh. Listening to outsiders trying to pronounce it is one of the sports around here…)

We haven’t paved over the whole state yet, though. There is lots of good hiking locally, and you are at a 3 hour or so drive from either the beach or the mountains. There’s a lot of natural beauty in NC. Here’s the site for our local Sierra Club; click on the outings tab to see some recent outings they’ve offered.

Job-wise, there’s a lot of high-tech industry out in Research Triangle Park (RTP), sort of an office community located in the center of the Triangle. (The “Triangle” is defined by Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill.) Employers there include Glaxo-Wellcome, Cisco, Red Hat, Ericcson, IBM, Nortel, and others. There’s also a lot of clinical trial for pharmaceuticals going on out there. Several of these have had some major cutbacks in the last year or so, however.

Entertainment-wise, there’s an NHL team (the Carolina Hurricanes), and a couple of minor league baseball teams (Durham Bulls and Carolina Mudcats.) For college sports, you can’t beat ACC basketball, with Duke, Carolina, and NC State close by. The ESA (where the Hurricanes and NC State play) is large enough to attract major bands on tour, and the Alltel Pavilion attracts smaller groups. The North Carolina Symphony is good, and I’ve heard good stuff about our ballet company. We get touring broadway shows in Raleigh, and Duke, State, and Carolina sometimes host some pretty high-profile performances for students, which the general public can take advantage of as well.

I don’t know much about the choral music scene, or the club scene (reference the two elementary school kids mentioned earlier!) A couple of the local weeklies that describe what’s going on are The Independent and The Spectator. You can read the headlines from the local paper here. One of the local TV stations has a very good site here.

One of my good walking buddies is a real estate agent, and I’m sure she would be a good source of info on the region. If you’d like, I could hook you up with her e-mail address. (If I haven’t scared you away with my devil’s advocate stuff.)

By the way, what led you to Cary? Most non-locals haven’t really heard of it.

9

Yup, we’uns would still be a’fornicatin’ with our cousins and dancin’ with the possums on Friday nights if it wuzn’t fer all that there culture them northerners done brung us.

Y’all’ll hafta ‘scuse me now, I gots to get off this here internet thing, cuz Bubba and Rufus is a’waitin’ on me so’s we can have our Monday night spittin’ contest.

(Course, Bubba always wins, seein’ as how he done knocked out his two front teeth opening up all them bottles of RC Cola. It shore is a dern shame they didn’t start sellin’ them newfangled 'luminum cans a year earlier…)

10

Jeez, I lived in Carrboro for six years and didn’t know that!

::Waves to all the RTP-area people in the thread::

11

Seriously, Strainger, I wouldn’t discount the humidity issue. Moisture in the air interferes with your body’s ability to release heat. Here’s a reference on heat index, which describes how different temperature/humidity combinations feel to your body (analogous to the wind chill). I don’t have any of my weather data references handy, and don’t have time to google after them right now, but I’ll see if I can look up something on that tomorrow. (Actually, you can probably link to some of that off the site above.)

12

Thanks again to everyone else who has weighed in here. Sounds like Raleigh, or perhaps one of its suburbs, may be more my place to live, based on what people here are saying.

The reason I mentioned Cary was because, while RTP seems to offer a lot in the way of IT, Cary seems to offer more as far as Computer Aided Engineering (CAE), which is what I do. Obviously I could live anywhere in that area within my own personal acceptable driving distance and commute.

Also, YWalker, I’m not discounting the humidity issue. It’s just that I lived in Atlanta for 13 years and have lived in Phoenix for eight and the heat/humidity in Phoenix during summer feels much worse, to me anyway, than the summer heat/humidity in Atlanta. What’s the high temp in that area during the summer, by the way? So far I can only find averages in my web searches.

13

Normal summer high temps in Raleigh are about 85-90 on most days.

By club scene do you mean bars with bands? There is a good amount of that here. Normally that is in Chapel Hill or Raleigh and they get most bands that tour and play clubs. Cat’s Cradle in Carrboro is very well known and a lot of groups play there when they are starting out. REM played there before they made it big.

Bigger groups will play the ESA or Alltel Pavilion in Ralegh, both seat around 20,000. Alltel is outdoors with some of the seats being on grass.

14

I was just going to start a similar thread. I’ve narrowed my residency choices to the southeast coast (Virginia to Florida), and NC has some good programs. Moses Cone in Greensboro is probably #1 on my list right now, and programs in Wilmington and Charlotte are on the list as well.

The only problem is that as a Kentucky basketball fan, being that close to UNC and Duke might make my head explode.

Dr. J

15

I’ve never lived there, but have close relatives and so have visited frequently. Lots of good stuff about the area, but I would second various comments earlier–

  1. It’s HOT in the summer; Grandma always said there was no point in coming to visit during July or August and, whaddaya know, she was right.

  2. Congestion is pretty fierce and getting worse all the time. You may indeed have to go to Assboink, Idaho, to avoid urbanization altogether, but there are many, many sizable places in the US with a heck of a lot less urban sprawl than the Triangle. It’s noticeably more–way more–every time I go; I’d love to see one of those time-lapse satellite photo thingies.

Good luck!

16

HEY, IM IN RALEIGH!!!

im from bolton, wich is about 30 miles west of wilmington, NC. Im attending NCSU in raleigh right now. It is hot here, and the humidity makes it worse!!! So youre coming to NC, the land of tobacco and ignorant people (sorry, thats columbus county, not the whole state)

17

Seriously, Cary is a great little town. It’s got everything you could possibly want within a 45-minute drive. Music, theatre, museums, etc. The RTP area has a very high concentration of very intelligent people, as do the universities (you can tell by the number of dopers who admit being from the area).
I grew up in Chapel Hill in the 70s and 80s, which was the perfect time in a perfect town. Everybody say “awww.” Whenever I go back, it seems that, although much has changed, the basic atmosphere hasn’t. It’s a very friendly, clean area, and it’s ideal for raising kids. I get the same impression from Durham (except for the “clean” part), Raleigh, Cary and Carrboro, which are the largest cities/towns nearby (and then, there’s Pittsboro, outside of Chapel Hill in the other direction. It’s…quaint. Which is a nice way of saying that going there is like stepping back to 1958 or so).

An added bonus, my ex-fiancee, who’s a total babe, lives in Cary and just broke up with her boyfriend. I’ll hook you up!

18

I have lived in Cary for the past five years, and like it very much. The town has grown greatly over the last 40 years, and recently passed 100,000 residents. This area is somewhat expensive for the southeast, however. I have a small two-bedroom/one-bathroom apartment in the east part of town that goes for $645/month, which is considered inexpensive for Cary.

Although there are good number of high-tech companies in the area, I wouldn’t move here unless you already have a job lined up, as the tech bust has meant that many local companies are shedding jobs at a high rate. But the long tem outlook is good, once we come out of the recession and companies start hiring again.

19

Howdy!

Other than being born here, I’ve lived my whole life in NC. Moved to Raleigh 12 yrs. ago for school and liked it so much I wound up staying.

Here’s a few points:
We lived in Cary for 3 years until we moved out to the wilds of eastern Wake county back in February. Cary was great for its centralized locale. Equally easy access to anything in Raleigh, Durham, or Chapel Hill. Very quick commute into the Research Triangle Park.

But, as YWalker very succinctly put it, Cary is the epitome of a “beige” community. The instances she cites are standard fare, and also what most of the rest of Wake county points to as reasons for NOT living there. The town is obsessively homogeneous. Restrictions and codes in the extreme - just before we moved I found out that you have to get a permit just to install a ceiling fan! :rolleyes:

But we’'ve moved out to the country now (between Wake Forest and Knightdale) and couldn’t be happier. Yes, the commutes are a bit longer, but it was the only way to get a mid-size house on a 0.75-acre lot and still be in our price range. And it’s wonderfully quiet.

Heat and humidity can get problematic, but as long as yer AC holds out, you should do fine. My wife spent this summer pregnant, and if she can survive, I’m sure you can, too. :slight_smile: Actually, this year’s been a great example of good weather: I don’t recall more than ten “Code-Red” ozone days total. We haven’t had any Indian summer - we’ve already got our nights down in the 40s. And of course, the big story is NO HURRICANES! (so far) We lived through the two big ones from the past five years and that was the worst it’s gotten.

Lastly, in the interests of catching the eyes of fellow Tringle dwellers, I’m gonna link to this thread about the World Beer Festival going on in Durham this Saturday. Hope to see some of y’all there!

20

The other direction. I live in a small town west of Durham called Mebane. (Pronounced Mebin). It’s about a half-hour commute to RTP and the traffic is really not that bad. If you want to get away from urban sprawl you might consider this town. One thing about the Raleigh-Durham area: It’s GREEN! Year 'round. And of course the leaves are starting to turn brown this time of year, there’s a bite in the night air and it’s just beautiful…
Give me an e-mail when you get in the area and we’ll go out and tip a few. :slight_smile:

Jake