Selected for Special Attention! (airport security rant)

The BBQ Pit
101

[QUOTE=diggleblop]

To give you an example of how accurate those machines are, they told us that if these machines detected golf balls instead of explosives and you had one purple golf ball and hid it in RFK stadium in DC and filled the whole stadium up with white goldballs, that machine would easily find that purple golf ball. That’s what it does with explosive particles. Because explosive particles are sticky and stick to everything you touch. People in the armed forces always set off the alarms, because explosives are all over the base. Every bag that gets alarmed in the “XRay machine” gets swabbed.
[/QUOTE]

If you take everything the company selling the things tells you in the brochure as the Gospel of the Lord, then yes. I assume most of us are literate enough to understand what “parts per billion means”. However, you are wrongly assuming that the machine is indeed looking for an easily-defined and conveniently distinguishable thing called “explosive particles” and not a wider family of chemical particles, some of which are explosive. And as I mentioned earlier, not all explosives are picked up by this magical golf ball finder.

102

And I should add that I think the Bowie knife suggestion is probably a much better security plan than the “random” searching of brown-skinned peoples. Plus, they don’t search anyone thoroughly anyway, so what’s the point?

And to the comment that the checked baggage is searched thoroughly, I don’t believe that for a second. What percentage is searched? I have no doubt that when they DO search a bag, it’s thorough , but how many get searched?

And those are bags that are not accessible from the cabin, so the point is almost moot when we are talking about the security aimed at preventing passengers from carrying dangerous stuff onboard.

103

[QUOTE=CynicalGabe]
And those are bags that are not accessible from the cabin, so the point is almost moot when we are talking about the security aimed at preventing passengers from carrying dangerous stuff onboard.
[/QUOTE]

Huh?

104

[QUOTE=Mama Tiger]
I got a knee replacement a few months ago. Now every single time I ever go through security anywhere ever again I will have to undergo full searching. Even though I carry a card stating I have a knee replacement, with all the pertinent info about me and my doctor and the whole nine yards. I’ve already flown once, and having to allow an extra 15-30 minutes for them to figure out that, duh hey, that really is an artificial knee. Saying it is a major, serious pain in the ass is an understatement. And I only have this to look for at every airport in the entire world for the rest of my life. Lucky me. :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]

My husband had a lot of metal put in his lower right leg to hold it together about 30 years ago. Before they issued the little cards saying “this person contains some metal parts”.

He was once told to go back to the operating surgeon and obtain the little card. Husband pointed out said surgeon is deceased. He was told that if he couldn’t obtain the Little Magic Card from the operating surgeon he’d have to get “special attention” every time and maybe wouldn’t be allowed to fly sometimes.

And people wonder why I have my own pilot’s license…

105

I’ve had “SA”, too - which consisted of removing my shoes & being half-heartedly wanded.

My best “SA” experience occurred YEARS ago - I think after the 1st explosion at the WTC. I had a bottle of Ralph Lauren “Safari” perfume in my carry-on and after it went through the conveyor belt, I was asked politely to “step over here, please”. The bottle looks like this - http://www.nellbutler.com/Photos/SAFARI_W.jpg - and scanned like a hand grenade (so I was told). I had to give it a squirt or two and was then sent on my way. I changed perfumes after that :smiley:

VCNJ~

106

[QUOTE=BaneSidhe]
My first time flying alone last year (and the 2nd time I’ve flown in my life) where I got stopped AND my baggage gone thu was on my way back from Colorado Springs to Charleston, WV. I guess what got me pulled was that I had on a brightly tye dyed shirt and looked like I hadn’t slept in days (waking up early and I don’t go well together). I think what got my suitcase pulled might have been the BRIGHT SCREAMING PINK SMILY FACE luggage tag and small skein of brightly colored ribbons I put on the handle to be able to ID my suitcase.
[/QUOTE]

I used to have a blue suitcase. Having noticed that 1/3 of the suitcases in the world are blue and 1/2 are black, I put an embroidered sticker of a cow on it… you know, jacket patches. A cow, yes. Why a cow? Well, how many blue suitcases with cow patches have you seen? D’uh.

Last year I got an orange suitcase and a huge patch of a pirate cat for it. The patch survived three train trips, several thousand miles in my trunk, one plane trip. After the second plane trip, it just evaporated :frowning:

I want my cat back, you thieves!

107

Last time I flew (Manchester, UK to Atlanta, Georgia), I was on crutches. Not only was I hustled through the lines by really helpful airport workers, but they never scanned my crutches in any way. I guarantee I could kill somebody with one of those; could also have hidden a variety of weapons in them. Didn’t need any proof that I needed the crutches, either; I could have just put my leg in a brace and been pretending. (Come to think of it, I might do that next time I fly, just to get through the lines quicker.)

They did thoroughly check our souvenir teddy bear in Manchester, though.

I keep reading that Federal plainclothes agents, testing the system, have no trouble getting whatever weapon they want onto planes. And I’ve never heard an official answer for what the TSA is going to do after somebody takes a bomb aboard in his colon.

108

[QUOTE=CynicalGabe]
Bring a tube of astroglide with you, so you don’t have to wait for them to find one.
[/QUOTE]

Just make sure that it doesn’t contain more than 100 ml and it is placed in a plastic baggie. :slight_smile:

109

[QUOTE=1010011010]
Yep, because nobody is better at convincing security they’re a non-threatening innocent than a non-threatening innocent that doesn’t know there’s a bomb strapped to the car. So, your theory is that a terrorist hit squad chartered a tour and secretly swapped out the sandwiches with stinger missiles… and everyone totally kept their cool during the undercarriage inspection and stayed in their role as geriatric bird watchers? Of course that’s silly. There’s no good reason to look in the cooler. It’s a waste of time. Act squirrelly and overly-cooperative next time, see if they search the car.
[/QUOTE]

We DO act overly cooperative. It’s like play acting in a farce.

No, it’s not MY theory, it seems to be yours. In point of fact, the inspectors cannot know what combination of knowing versus unknowing people are aboard. Any or all of us could be martyrs in the making. The level of secrecy on board might be anything from total to zero. And so a bomb, or selected weapons, could be anywhere. We might have taken great pains to hide it. Or it might be “hidden in plain sight”. There is as much reason – or as little reason – to look in the cooler as anywhere else.

[QUOTE=1010011010]
<snip> Nobody is going to utter the phrase “acceptable risk” any time soon, so a lot of pointless measures get mandated and half-heartedly executed (or over-enthusiastically executed, depending on the temperament of the people in question). It just seemed like you were linking the undercarriage check to suspicion of the vehicle occupants, and that isn’t usually the case.
[/QUOTE]

No, I was linking the inspection to the presumption that some kind of potential threat exists and may be carried by entering vehicles, the exact nature of the threat is unknown by the inspectors, and they are charged with the duty to discover it should it be present. Half hearted and overly enthusiastic perfectly describes the vehicle inspections, which could indeed discover a real threat and prevent an incident if comprehensively and carefully performed.

“Pointless measures” exactly describes actions like barricading parking pulloffs and beach access while miles of empty road shoulder exist.

[QUOTE=1010011010]
Procedures that seem capricious and ineffective from the point-of-view of a single individual being searched may be serving some non-obvious purpose that makes more sense across the entire security program. Or it could just be some power-tripping asshat. Leave some feedback with a supervisor if you feel it’s important enough that security was too lax or unnecessarily intrusive.
[/QUOTE]

“Non-obvious purpose” is a reach here, although I do accept the fact that I / we cannot know all the hidden cards in the deck. But I’m sorry, I just can’t accept these capricious measures as anything other than ineffective from any kind of realistic security perspective. Somebody upstairs mandated that “security measures be implemented” and so, by bog, they did! And like the capricious airport screenings detailed upthread, these serve more to quiet public outcry that “something’s gotta be done!!” than to prevent any carefully planned terrorist attack. That’s what makes the entire system such a joke. If we’re going to inspect, then INSPECT, like El Al. If instead we’re making windy mouth noises, then just leave me alone.

Why don’t we try self inspections at airports? Walk up to random people and say “Show me inside your bag and I’ll show you mine!” Anybody who hesitates gets a presumption of suspicion. The rest of us can compare toiletries and get on the damn plane.
.

110

The TSA guy checking my ID today was all thumbs…he had three of them!

111

[QUOTE=CannyDan]
There is as much reason – or as little reason – to look in the cooler as anywhere else.
[/QUOTE]
Rather than not searching the cooler, suppose he had instead asked “Do you have a bomb in the undercarriage of your van?”

The underlying scenario is that the passengers do not know they’re delivering a car bomb. You can’t ask them. You have to search. You can, however, ask them what’s in the cooler.

112

[QUOTE=tdn]
It’s small consolation, but it’s fun to see one of these apes get inconvenienced themselves. At Providence airport, they have the policy of opening every single checked bag. One suspicious box was marked “Live lobsters.” The security lady opened it up, and lo and behold, it did not contain lobsters. It contained crabs. About a dozen of them. SO she dutifully pulled them out, one at a time, and put them on the counter. The look on her face was priceless, as if she were sorting through turds. And of course, all of the crabs were walking away from her, and she had to chase after them.
[/QUOTE]

This is funny.

113

[QUOTE=GorillaMan]
Huh?
[/QUOTE]

I’m saying that the screening we are discussing is passenger screening. No one is arguing that baggage should not be screened. Hell, it’d be nice if it were…

114

[QUOTE=CynicalGabe]
And then…
Due to several flights leaving from the same gate within a few minutes of each other, and the fact that the overpaid ticket-takers don’t actually bother CHECKING your boarding pass, my wife and I, along with 3 or 4 other people, actually got on the WRONG PLANE. We didn’t discover our mistake until the pilot mentioned the anticipated flight time to Colorado Springs (which is not where we live). I told my wife that next time, we are going to buy tickets for a cheap commuter flight in order to get into the terminal, and just get on a plane going to Hawaii to cut down on our airfare.
[/QUOTE]

Ya know, you had me up to this point. I was agreeing with you. But what kind of doorknob are you if you get on the wrong fucking plane? Just how fucking brain dead do you have to be? There are multiple announcements about what plane goes where. There are TV monitors all over the place that tell you what plane goes where. The flight attendants tell you where the plane is going. All of these long before the pilot comes on to make a destination announcement. If you got all the way to the pilots announcement before you woke up from the brain dead, I have no sympathy for you. You belong in the cavity search line at security.
here is a quarter, buy a clue.
Rick
-Who was over an hour late once because some brain dead asshole did not realize that he was on the wrong aircraft until it was on the taxiway.

115

[QUOTE=Rick]
Ya know, you had me up to this point. I was agreeing with you. But what kind of doorknob are you if you get on the wrong fucking plane? Just how fucking brain dead do you have to be? There are multiple announcements about what plane goes where. There are TV monitors all over the place that tell you what plane goes where. The flight attendants tell you where the plane is going. All of these long before the pilot comes on to make a destination announcement. If you got all the way to the pilots announcement before you woke up from the brain dead, I have no sympathy for you. You belong in the cavity search line at security.
here is a quarter, buy a clue.
Rick
-Who was over an hour late once because some brain dead asshole did not realize that he was on the wrong aircraft until it was on the taxiway.
[/QUOTE]

Hey, fuck you.

As I said:
1 gate, multiple flights leaving within 10 minutes. This adds to the confusion since the signs on the gate indicated MY CORRECT FLIGHT
Low budget airline = NO TV MONITORS
Stupid airline employee opening the door by mistake and setting off alarm = NO AUDIBLE ANNOUNCEMENTS
Ticket takers not checking boarding passes.
And stewardess (only 1 since its a small plane) NOT making any announcements = me not finding out until pilot makes his announcement.

This was a small commuter flight, not the daily 747 to Berlin. Several other passengers got on the plane by mistake with us. And at least one other one almost did, but caught a glimpse of another passenger’s boarding pass and saw that it was the wrong flight.

116

My son and I flew back from Texas last summer. I hadn’t flown in a long time, (and it was his first time), so I was unaware of how things have changed.

You want me to take my shoes off? Okay…it’s your nose.

Taking my book matches? That’s alright, it looks like a two mile walk to smoke anways.

You selected both of our bags at random to dump everything out, root through it, and cram it all back in? Good thing I didn’t get those illegal fireworks at that roadside stand I saw on the way to the airport.

And not to hijack (no pun intended), but does anyone remember how it was before 911? I was stationed in San Diego at the time, and we decided to fly up to San Francisco, to see our families.

I wanted to hit the firing range, so I put my .45 in a small lockbox, then put it in my duffle bag. I informed the ticket guy that I had a weapon. He gave me a bright red hang tag that said “Firearm Inside”. I tied it to the handle.

We then got ready to board. There were two security guys sitting on a bench. I asked them if they wanted to see my handgun.

“Nope.”

“Don’t you want to make sure that it isn’t loaded, and doesn’t have the magazine inserted?”

“Nope.”

“Don’t you want to make sure that the rounds are separate from the magazine?”

“Nope.”

My ex said, “Aren’t they worried about someone carrying a gun?”

“Nope.”

117

[QUOTE=rhythmonly]

My ex said, “Aren’t they worried about someone carrying a gun?”

“Nope.”
[/QUOTE]

Even post-9/11, I think they are too concerned about grannies with their knitting needles, swiss army knives and that ever present threat to democracy - cigarette lighters to bother checking for guns.

118

[QUOTE=Baldwin]
Last time I flew (Manchester, UK to Atlanta, Georgia), I was on crutches. Not only was I hustled through the lines by really helpful airport workers, but they never scanned my crutches in any way. I guarantee I could kill somebody with one of those; could also have hidden a variety of weapons in them. Didn’t need any proof that I needed the crutches, either; I could have just put my leg in a brace and been pretending. (Come to think of it, I might do that next time I fly, just to get through the lines quicker.)
[/QUOTE]

Whereas when I flew shortly enough after my knee replacement that I still needed to use a cane for support, those bastards at BWI took away my cane and wouldn’t give me anything else to help myself stand up for several minutes. On my return flight, leaving from New Orleans, they had an all-wood cane I could use and take right through the metal detector, and told me they were supposed to have one at BWI, too. I’m seriously tempted next time I go through that airport to take my cane and then insist they give me one, and if not find a supervisor and raise holy hell. Because it can really make a difference for people who need it!

ETA: You can take knitting needles on board, no problem whatsoever. Which makes no sense. But hey, as a knitter, I’m not arguing.

And I once got on the wrong flight – neighboring gate, different airline same destination. If someone else hadn’t already been in my seat and someone finally checked my boarding pass, I would have ended up taking another airline’s flight to my same destination. Accidents do happen.

119

[QUOTE=CynicalGabe]
Hey, fuck you.

As I said:
1 gate, multiple flights leaving within 10 minutes. This adds to the confusion since the signs on the gate indicated MY CORRECT FLIGHT
Low budget airline = NO TV MONITORS
Stupid airline employee opening the door by mistake and setting off alarm = NO AUDIBLE ANNOUNCEMENTS
Ticket takers not checking boarding passes.
And stewardess (only 1 since its a small plane) NOT making any announcements = me not finding out until pilot makes his announcement.

[/QUOTE]

Hell yes. I can imagine it being very easy to do under those circumstances, I’ve had a few moments myself where I’ve screeched to a halt in mid-dash to figure out which plane I’m running for.
Fortunately in Europe most flights are international and governments take a very dim view of passengers being delivered to the wrong country, so the carriers tend to be careful. The real cattle-shippers like RyanAir check your boarding pass at the gate and on the plane, which is a bit of a PITA but I suppose it’s better than having the plane returned to the gate (or accidentally ending up in Prague rather than Stockholm).

120

Huh? Now I’m completely lost.

[QUOTE=1010011010]
Rather than not searching the cooler, suppose he had instead asked “Do you have a bomb in the undercarriage of your van?”
[/QUOTE]

And if I answered YES, he should have looked? Or not? And if I answered “That’s where I keep my lunch” he should believe me? Or look in the cooler? (“Hhmmmm… Lunch in the undercarriage… Must mean bomb in the cooler!!”) I’m confused.

[QUOTE=1010011010]
The underlying scenario is that the passengers do not know they’re delivering a car bomb. You can’t ask them. You have to search. You can, however, ask them what’s in the cooler.
[/QUOTE]

You can’t ask them, because they may not know, and/or they may lie. So “You have to search.” Agreed. That certainly seems to be the case for the undercarriage, or the interior, or the knapsacks. I’ve said as much every time. My point was, if you’re going to do a search, then by bog, do a search.

Why in blazes should it be different for the cooler? Why should anything I say change the fact that the cooler contains half a dozen cubic feet of unsearched, therefore potentially bomb carrying, space? Because a bomb in the cooler is a cooler bomb, not a car bomb?

Or because you assume that everyone on board is an equivalent dupe, and someone on board must have opened the cooler, and so someone would have discovered the bomb, and we would never have gotten to the gate with it but stopped at a police station to turn it in instead? Maybe I’m not a dupe. I hid the bomb alongside the groceries. I kept it from being discovered by the other passengers. And now I respond to the inspector’s question “What’s in the cooler?” (quite truthfully albeit incompletely) “Lunch”.

No matter how many scenarios we run, and how many generous assumptions we choose to make, failure to inspect a huge closed box is a joke waiting for a punch line. So is the undercarriage “inspection”.

Ever stood in the Florida sun in a parking lot and tried to actually see the undercarriage of a vehicle with one of those mirror thingies? I have-- I walk beside the inspector every time. I tell you from first hand knowledge that, depending on the time of day, at least one third and as much as one half of the underside cannot be seen in the mirror due to glare from the sun. Even if a “device” were spic and span clean and clearly labeled with red letters “BOMB” it would go unnoticed a substantial majority of the time(s). But this bothers the inspectors no more than the closed cooler.

Once again to the basic premise-- a half hearted inspection of the undercarriage and a wave of the hand to other possibilities falls short of “due diligence”. If inspections are important enough to occupy Rangers’ time and the time of the visiting public, then they should be conducted with due diligence. If the inspectors are not expected to exercise due dilligence, then the inspections are merely a PR display. In such a case we should either improve the inspection procedure or eliminate the inconvenience.