Huh- I think you’re right. I fly internationally quite a bit, I must be confusing my airports (at least recently).
Ok. Please show me the congressional legislation that was passed mandating that I put my liquids and gels in a clear ziplock bag.
Executive branch agencies set their policies. Congress can pass laws mandating/amending/etc/modifying those policies, but the day-to-day stuff is decided on by the agency in question.
In 2002 i was flying from Belfast (Northern Ireland) to Leeds (north England) and was searched and x-rayed to get into the airport! I thought that was going a bit far but on the plane i was put on the very back row, by the window, with the other 3 seats in the row filled with 3 large blokes with cropped haircuts and big necks. Half-way through the 35 minutes flight they bruiser sitting next to me said they were special forces and were doing one of the ‘security’ parts of their jobs. He said he could only tell me because i was drunk on Guinness and had vocally marveled at the setting sun, obviously posing no threat to the cabin crew or other passengers. I actually felt completely un-inconvenienced (sp) by the whole charade, although that could’ve been the Guinness.
Jane you ignorant slut. Congress passed a law giving the TSA authority to make polcies and regs, not the other way around. First Congress passes a law with the basics (See the Patriot Act for example)- in that law are sections giving Agencies the authority to make regulations to enforce that law. :rolleyes:
There is no law stating that you have to put you crap in a bag, but there is a Law (mostly the 2001 Aviation and Transportation Security Act) allowing the TSA to make such regs as nessesary.
http://www.govexec.com/features/0506-01/0506-01na2.htm
But for if you don’t know at least that much about the Constitution and the way America works I hope for sake of the baby Jesus you don’t vote or you re planning to leave soon. :rolleyes: And until you do, please don’t bother to go on “Are you smarter than a 5th Grader” as that question is now moot.
So you’re all fed up with the stupid security measures and think TSA/military/etc are all incompetent? Au contraire…
It’s more like the security guys are like “You want me to ask them what? Inspect huh? Ok…” They all realize how dumb the measures are too. It’s not incompetence that stops them from doing a good job. It’s the complacency. Let he who has never done a half-assed job throw the first stone.
Gee, Captain Obvious, that sounds pretty close to what I said.
Piss off.
Nope, you said the exact opposite. Congress passes the enabling legislation, then the agency can pass policies (Regulations) mandating/amending/etc/modifying those Laws.
Congress also can change any Regulation if it needs to, and it fairly often does so in the case of Internal Revenue Regs.
So, you got it backwards. You fail.
Really? Wow. I wonder what the reasoning behind that is. (Although, I can understand you not asking, what with having learned to not use the phrases “jackbooted fascist” or “Molotov cocktail”. Why take chances, eh?) 
So I guess my choices on my next flight are (a) try to take my empty bottle through security and see what happens (not to cause trouble, mind you; I just really don’t like paying, highway robbery or not, for something that I can get for free from any faucet), or (b) just suck it up and lick the boots of the airport concessions owners, and be grateful that I’m no longer at the mercy of the flight attendants for my hydrating needs (which REALLY sucked last summer when I flew to San Diego).
No, you fool! We are saying the same thing. Congress sets policy (thou shalt prevent bombs from being brought on aircraft), but the interpretation of those policies it set by the agency, with changes to the implementation as they see fit (we now like ziplock baggies). If Congress doesn’t like it, they can pass additional legislation saying that, for instance, ziplock baggies are bad and passengers can bring whatever liquids they damn well please onboard.
I don’t think the military has been targeted here.
And I beg to differ on the TSA employees- most I have had the occasion to deal with are fucking idiots who couldn’t get a job at the DMV. They are indeed incompetent, but so are the people creating these regulations.
I am about to have my second experience with Aruban Customs and Immigration, and I hope it’s as good as the first (the kids will be with us this time).
Last year, we were traveling very light- just one backpack each. It makes it so much easier to get in and out of airports, especially when you are flying internationally- always the first ones in the C&I queue, as we aren’t waiting for luggage. * When we arrived in Aruba, we walked straight through Immigration thanks to a friendly and extremely efficient Immigration agent (“Welcome to Aruba!!!” instead of the sullen “This job sucks” vibe we usually get from US agents), then walked over to the Customs checkpoint, which was manned by a couple of guys with automatic weapons :eek: . The guys looked at our backpacks, asked “Any other luggage” and we said no. “Really? That’s it? Okay, welcome to Aruba!” And we were off- first for a taxi and gone!
I so hope that things are equally easy next weekend- we are still traveling carry-on only (we sent our big sunscreens and stuff in a checked bag with family going a day ahead).
- Damn these stupid liquid restrictions in the US- they have screwed us but good.
Well, back from our trip and glad to say we and our luggage - including black powder musket - made it through security essentially unscathed. Was impressed at my 3 teens’ impression of O’Hare, asking if that truly was the best system we could come up with. But other than having to wait in a very lengthy line to check our luggage (and declare the gun), no horrific surprises.
At O’Hare, after you receive a luggage tag, you take your luggage to another location where a TSA employee sends it through the x-ray. I had to hang around while the gun went through. What struck us as odd was that the guy was not feeding the luggage through in the order that he got it. For example, we checked 8 bags total. He put about 5 through right away, and set the other 3 to the side. And my wife saw him tear a tag off of one suitcase - who knows, perhaps it was from a previous flight, but seeing that did not instill us with confidence.
For whatever reason, we preferred to see that all of our cases made it through this one step. I approached him to ask him as politely as possible if there was a reason why certain bags were being set aside, and he responded with the type of superficially polite response which is essentially a “Fuck you, get out of my face” saying “Sir, all of the bags will get on the plane.” Suffice it to say that I was not shocked that not all of ours made it, and needed to be delivered to our hotel later that night.
When the gun case came out, it was missing its required TSA-approved lock. My son was worried before he opened it and saw everything was okay. Can’t figure a legitimate reason for TSA to take the lock off, and decline to replace it. Became a bit of a hassle because the case required a certain kind of lock which was a PITA to locate where we were.
On the way back my wife had a 3 oz bottle of sunscreen that they tossed because it wasn’t in a plastic bag. Someone remind me again what it is about ziploc bags that protects us all from exploding sunscreen?
All in all, however, considering how painful I expected it to be, it was a walk in the park.
OK, this is the thread that finally got me to pay up and join the board. Here’s my story.
A few weeks back, I’d gone to San Francisco, for no particular reason other than to spend a little time there with some really good friends. My flight from New York to SF was uneventful Aside from a crab juice incident (about which I may post in the Pit later), the only dark spot was an encounter with a TSA screener in the airport in San Francisco. You know, those morons the government has hired at very slightly more than minimum wage to make us all feel like we’re safe from terrorism in the skies while at the same time making entering any airport in the country an ordeal.
For the last few years I’ve had an artificial knee. For the most part it’s been great. It works like a dream. I’d gotten to the point where I literally could hardly walk, but after the surgery I can do anything I want, within reason (it’s got to be low-impact). So I’ve gone on hundred-mile bicycle rides, and climbing in Joshua Tree, and all kinds of stuff I hadn’t been able to do for years. But the one time it really, really sucks is in airports, because it sets of all the metal detectors and then I have to be patted down and felt up and interrogated by security people until they’re satisfied that I really do have a metal knee and not a bomb on my person somewhere.
So I’m on line to get screened, and I go through the detector. It goes off, and the TSA people rush over to make sure that I’m not planning to blow up a plane. No problem, I’m used to it by now. I don’t have one of those handy-dandy little cards that other posters have described, but it doesn’t sound like they do anything anyway. This time a TSA person comes over, and I tell him that I’ve got an artificial knee. He pats me down and feels me up and finds that I’ve got nothing in my pockets, so he tells me to walk up to the search area. He’s behind me. We walk for a bit to where there are little areas set aside for searching. From behind me he tells me to go into the room to my left. I start walking that way. Then I hear him shouting (literally – he’s actually shouting) “DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, SIR? WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM? YOU NEED TO FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS, SIR.” You know how law-enforcement types give that extra little emphasis to the word “sir,” just to make it insulting? He was doing that at the top of his lungs. He goes on like that for a while. I’m standing there completely bewildered. I mean, I haven’t done anything, and he’s shouting at me, and other TSA people are starting to come over, and I even notice one person with a gun on his hip starting to move in my direction. I’m hopelessly confused. And then I see what the problem is. The moron doesn’t know his left from his right. He meant for me to enter the room to my right, and when I went the other way (to my left, as he’d instructed), he thought I was trying to escape or something. I turned around and said “hey, you told me to go to my left,” and the look on his face was priceless. I mean, what could he say? He had told me to go to my left, and all his co-workers had heard him. He couldn’t deny it. But he was going to make me pay the price for embarrassing him. I got an extremely thorough search. Practically the same search that they get in prison. And he made sure he took his time. I very nearly missed my plane. Needless to say, by that time I really did have a problem, but there was nothing I could do (if I complained, I’m sure they’d put me on the no-fly list, so I figured it was better to keep my mouth shut), so I got on the plane and tried to forget about it.
The guy was an idiot. Ever seen that South Park episode where Cartman rides around on his Big Wheel tricycle shouting at everyone “RESPECT MY AUTHORITY”? He was just like that. What a clown.
That was it. I wrote (via e-mail) to the TSA about the incident, and got a form response acknowledging receipt of my communication, but I doubt anything will ever come of it.
About two years ago I trained some employees of the L.A.P.D. The training took place at the new academy. Fair to say that every doorknob and countertop has gunpowder residue on it somewhere, since there is a range ( or two… ) on site used for qualifying one’s weapon and such. Also, the Bomb Unit trains and uses explosives on site.
I checked a case that lit up their **Magyckal Machieienne **like a non-demoninational Holiday Bush. The supervisor asked for my ticket and I.D. I stood, and stood, and watched them rip my clothing apart. Unneccesary of course. The Pelican case that had tested positive had a video camera, a steel plate and some accessories in it. It was the steel plate that really hit a high measure of explosive residue.
When I told the supervisor where I’d been, and that I wasn’t at ALL surprised that it hit for Explosives Residue, the guy looked at me like I was a poor liar. I was dressed in typical travel clothing- old t shirt and loose fitting comfy pants and sneakers.
He then informed me that I was not on a No Fly list, but that my name and info had been entered into the airlines computer database for future “review”. Uh huh.
Went through regular security, didn’t get flagged at the gate, nothing. Weird. For a hit that positive, I’d have thought I’d get the Special Treatment at gateside.
Cartooniverse
Well, that would require them to do their job!
I was in Denver shortly after the TSA was set up, and they were training new employees from the smaller regional airports. I got pulled aside for extra security (they told me it was just for training purposes) and the guy, who was from Grand Junction, CO, wanded me and it kept going off every time he put it at my chest level. I figured out the problem very quickly, as did the TSA trainers, who could barely stand they were laughing so hard. The guy was standing too close to me and he was setting the wand off with his own badge!
It might be bad in Chicago and New York, but small airports are much worse.
Welcome to the SDMB. Your post implies that you have lurked for a while. Therefore, there is no excuse, SIR, for your ignorance of the fact that it is entirely unacceptable, SIR, to allude to something like a “crab juice incident” on this message board without immediately posting a full description of said incident. SIR!
(uh…please tell us about the crab juice incident. pwetty pwease??)
Well, as I said in my post, I’ll probably be posting that incident right here in the Pit pretty soon. . . but my tired old body needs sleep.
Fun thread. About a year after the TSA was established, I visited their web site and found a running tally of all the objects they had taken from passengers, organized by type. IIRC, at the time the site showed about 1.2 million sets of nail clippers confiscated. The whole thing was presented proudly, as though each object taken was a hijack foiled. I have no idea whether they still keep track of that stuff, but I can only imagine the vast quantities of Gatorade that have been poured out to keep us safe.
My favorite bit of TSA silliness was from a few years ago, watching them try to fit a large metal sign into the X-ray machine for carry-on luggage. This was one of those repro advertising signs that people like to decorate their rec rooms with, and it just barely fit with some maneuvering. The thing was only about 1/16 of an inch thick. I really can’t imagine what could conceivably have been hidden inside it.
You know that everyone who posted in this thread is now on the “no-fly” list, right? Or at least will receive “special attention” for the rest of their lives.