Selective Magnet School in Virginia moving towards a lottery system

In a sense, this is true, but it is nonetheless consistently ranked in that spot and in a sane world of educational politics would be valued for that instead of destroyed.

Some of the other programs in the Governor’s School system are much more specialized - there’s one just for “ocean sciences,” one for arts, and one for “government and international studies” in Richmond.

The arts one in particular is a good example of using the program for something with no direct relationship to overall academic performance. There’s lot of kids who are good trumpet players or dancers who don’t need to take linear algebra as part of a one-size-fits-all “gifted” apprach.

The Richmond school used to make a big deal out of how it was offering something for advanced students of the humanities and social sciences instead of trying to fit everyone with high academic ability into the STEM track, though in recent years it’s become much more TJ-like.

Is it possible that the reason the programs had to be concentrated is because most NYC elementary schools no longer have enough families in them that value education to constitute a “gifted” class? The state of things in the average NYC public school is fairly dire and almost all of them outside the wealthiest few neighborhoods are limited to people who don’t have the means to move or pay private school tuition, and those who don’t really care if their kids learn to read or not.

What is your understanding of why this is not currently done?

What is valued is the reputation of being the “best” They don’t really particularly care what makes it the best.

They want to appropriate the the benefits of that reputation, built on student body using a highly selective process, to students that would not be selected using that process. If they were merely interested in what happened inside the school, they could build another one and use whatever criteria they want to populate the school but they want the tjhhst reputation.

I went to elementary school in predominantly black/hispanic neighborhoods. These were pretty poor neighborhoods (there were large piles of rubble where building ought to be). Our GT program didn’t start until 3rd grade. The GT class was predominantly black/hispanic, my GT classmates were mostly bright enough to benefit from the accelerated coursework. They were reasonably studious and hard working. Even if the they do not have the same focus on academics as asians, most poor black and hispanic families value education to a normal degree, they can produce enough kids that can meet the reasonably low bar necessary to benefit form a GT environment.

Generally speaking…I don’t think black and hispanic families value education any less than similarly situated white families. I don’t think their kids study any less than similarly situated white kids.

Once again generally speaking… I don’t think most of them worked as hard as the asian kids.

I think there are enough kids to fill one or two GT classes at each grade but a GT program has overhead and having a GT program at every school costs more money than pooling all the kids to a central location.

It’s not like there aren’t promising black and hispanic students. Some of the most exclusive private schools in NYC are 10% black. When I was a kid those schools were 100% white. These private school scout out and cherrypick the top black prospects. I don’t know if a more robust GT program would lead to more black kids at stuy but I believe it would lead to better educations for the black kids in the city generally to have local GT programs.

It sure beats being Uyghur.

Yes, there is.

I think America is a little unusual, as from what I hear there is a lot more racism against black people than against other races. But I’m sure it also has the common sort of racism you’ve described.

Don’t think I’ve ever seen them try. They just argue from results: “if Hispanics are doing worse in any way then it must be due to racism”.

It makes sense. The GT program would benefit a larger number of students than the selective schools, too. And perhaps the bar for qualifying should depend on school, not be uniform across the city, because any kids who are significantly above the general standard in a school would benefit from more advanced classes.

Why is this?

(And off topic, but why were there piles of rubble in NYC? It wasn’t bombed in the war.)

Yes, anti-black racism is a special form of racism. This is the primary reason I try to frame the affirmative action debate juxtaposing poor asians immigrants with poor hispanic immigrants, hispanics benefit as much if not more from affirmative action than blacks. I favor some form of reparations for slavery but this half assed attempt to try to balance the books with affirmative action entirely at the expense of asians is not something I can support.

That is more or less how the GT program used to work. The GT students in the rich white neighborhood were probably more academically advanced than the GT students in poor black neighborhoods. But they learned from the same book.

I think it is because immigrants, particularly asian immigrants place more of an emphasis on education. I don’t have proof that poor asian immigrants study harder than poor blacks or hispanics but here is a study showing that asians study harder than whites.

I’m not sure, I was a kid. But I think these buildings got condemned, then abandoned by the owners, then demolished by the city and they took their time removing the rubble because they were in out of the way places, sort of between neighborhoods or by the train tracks.