Due to the layout of the room and obstacles between the exit, attempting to flee would be akin to making a decision to fight, or get my ass kicked if I continued to try and barge my way past. I have no delusions of machismo, just was lucky I was able to talk my way out of it.
I’m not trying to do anything just like the movies so you can tuck that little falsehood back in your pocket for later, but your idea that you can take care of people with wresting if it’s a “fair fight” (whatever that is) is just laughable.
Hint: If someone is going to jump you in the street there will be no referee to check if you have his shoulder pinned to the concrete.
Ok obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about. Doubt you’ve ever been in a fight or even anything close to it, where-as wrestlers train every day, often two times a day for months at a time. Most of the time 40-50 matches in a season. Wrestling is pretty much as close as you can get to fighting without strikes and submissions.
Hint: if I can control him/her enough that I can pin their shoulders to the ground then I think I’ve pretty much done my job.
Ok obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about. Doubt you’ve ever been in a fight or even anything close to it, where-as wrestlers train every day, often two times a day for months at a time. Most of the time 40-50 matches in a season. Wrestling is pretty much as close as you can get to fighting without strikes and submissions.
By fair fight, I mean one-on-one with no weapons. If it’s not a fair fight, and you’re not either extremely talented fighter and/or completely overpowering, well, there’s not gonna be much you can do but run.
But wait say it’s two-on-one where one guy is holding you. What skill would be more beneficial: striking or escaping? Your fundamentals teach striking, but you can’t. Mine teach escaping which would be very plausible and beneficial.
Hint: if I can control him/her enough that I can pin their shoulders to the ground then I think I’ve pretty much done my job.
Okay, seriously. Let’s think about it. If someone is going to attack you out of nowhere do you think it’s going to be anything close to a fair fight? Also, would you think that in an attack situation the best course of action is to roll around on the ground with the attacker?
Also are you really expecting the OP or anybody else to start a wrestling training course where they are going to train two times a day for months at a time and then have 40-50 matches a year? Really? That sounds like a plausible and reasonable course of action for someone who is wanting to learn about self defense in the real world? You know, a world where people have jobs and families and responsibilities that are outside the realm of a high school or college wrestling training courses? Are you going to assume that the OP or anyone else is in good enough shape to jump into your happy little two-a-day training schedule?
Sorry but your little scenario goes a long way of showing that it is you who has no idea what they are talking about. I like how in your example it STARTS with one person restraining you and another attacking. But forget the idea that you’re not given a chance to strike before being subdued: do you really think that Krav Maga (or any other self defense teaching) would be like “Well, your arms arm being restrained, might as well give up now! There’s no way you can strike or get away!” Get real.
I am by no means an expert on all types of self defense, but you’re being ridiculous to the point of comedy. And no, I’m not interested in breaking down the logistics of your next “what if!” scenario.
No it wouldn’t but then again it’s not rolling around on the ground it’s about domination and control.
No I’m not. That’s why I said upthread it’s very difficult to learn as an adult. Check it out. However, for your kids I would recommend it above all others.
Ok, sure. Good point. If you can strike very hard and deter them, then by all means. Even if there’s two of them or more and you can deliver powerful blows to deter them then that’s good and dandy. But chances are, if you’re a beginner, you can’t and won’t.
However, you’re fundamentals teach striking, where-as mine teach takedown, control, and escape. Also you can practice mine in a live situation daily because it’s not as damaging to the body. Yours, not so much. You can punch the bag and practice you’re defense all day but it’s nothing like the real thing.
Now I will concede, perhaps for the OP in question you’re route may be better. It works for thousands of everyday people, and has proven effective on the big stage. Then again, so has mine. But I am not being ridiculous in any way, I speak from experience. And you are talking to an expert.
Which is the basic problem with ground fighting. While you’re “dominating and controlling” your opponent, his pals are kicking the living shit out of you, or he is biting your hand, or any number of things that would never happen in a wrestling ring.
Don’t misunderstand; I think the fundamentals of wrestling or ground fighting are very important, because quite frankly most fights that don’t end with a single sucker punch typically go to ground. If someone tackles you from behind you’re going to ground. If you step backward to open up space and trip over a chair, uneven ground, or a random cat, you’re going to ground. No matter how good a fighter you are in the dojo and the ring, in a real world fight you’re probably going to ground unless you are fortunate enough to get the initiative and fast enough to keep it. But once you are on the ground you are vulnerable as hell; your best defense–that better part of valor–is no longer readily available to you, and you’re now struggling with fifteen plus stone of sweaty, smelly, over-testosteroned asshole, trying to pass your guard and attempting to stuff his elbow into your eye, ear, nostril, or any other apparent orifice, and meanwhile you are defenseless with your back grinding into the pavement, unable to reach any of the weapons that are now part of the useless twenty pounds of duty belt that is doing nothing but snagging any projection and preventing you from rolling to achieve a side mount and escape. And once you have the opponent pinned and controlled…then what? If you are lucky and good you can choke him out, provided you’re not suffering a rain of blows from his chums. If you just have him in a limb or body lock, then you’re just as trapped as he is.
It is good to know wrestling, grappling, and ground fighting technique, but mostly so you know how to prevent going to ground, or escape and get back up off of ground as soon as possible. If you’re self-defense strategy relies upon taking an opponent to ground, it is fairly limited in terms of real world usage.
As for realistic training, you make a good point that wrestling is “full contact” whereas most sparring is not realistically full contact (at least at anything below professional levels) but what comprises full contact in the wrestling ring, dojo, or even MMA competition is not the same thing as real world combat. There are ways to practice striking arts that simulate real combat pretty accurately without significant risk of injury. You won’t find this at your local tae kwon doe franchise shop, but I’ve trained with hands, feet, knives, eskrima, and other weapons in a realistic context, including unexpected attacks, restrained limbs, et cetera.
The best defense, of course, remains to be well out of range when bad things start happening. Your best defensive tools are your eyes and ears, and your best weapon is that part of the brain that tells you when something just ain’t right. I’ve also found a firm word and a hard stare can work wonders with some people, deflecting them to a softer target.
Stranger
That’s the problem with cats. They’re quantum uncertainty animals; both living and dead, existing right behind your legs and no existing all at once; until they are observed as you trip over them. 
Yeah, you’re a damned (and possibly dead) fool if you ‘go to ground’ with one guy when you’re fighting more than one.
Best tactics if surrounded is to pick one to go through, hit him as hard and nasty as possible and keep right on running.
“It’s technically not a sucker punch if you yell “Defend yourself, cocksucker!” two seconds before you let him have it!” -Modern Drunkard Magazine
There was a fad of self defense classes in the nineties teaching short classes. No 6 month training in Krav Maga, just a weekend class. The emphasis was on finding your *natural *style of self defense and polishing that. They’d also help you go through your purse and find effective “weapons” there like a ring of keys or a lollipop (hold the keys or lollipop in your palm and make a fist with the pointy end(s) out sort of like brass knuckles and aim for the throat and eyes.)
I took an intro course and found that I’m a “double over and use the elbows” kinda gal. They taught me how to stop my natural instinct to double over, but to go ahead and use my elbows - to the throat, not the gut. Reach up and around and back instead of down and back. It worked for me because it was a refinement of my instincts, not a complicated system which felt unnatural to me (a very not physically aggressive person.) ETA: And they added, if I find myself doubled over, don’t use the elbows, reach down and grab his genitals and twist as hard as I can, instead. Doubled over, I can still cause damage.
My girlfriend is a natural kicker, so they taught her how to direct her kicks to the knee and stomp on the instep of her attacker. I tried that, and I was just too slow, because I had to think about it too hard. I would never rely on it in an emergency, even though it might be very effective for her.
If I wanted to take a lengthy course to retrain myself, I could learn to kick effectively, I’m sure, but it would take a lot longer than this “refine what you do naturally” technique.
Hit something soft with something hard.
I know this thread is about MA. But it should be mentioned that, if you’re really serious about self defense, you’ll carry a handgun and (even more importantly) learn how to use it.
IF you can get a permit. Some places it’s pretty near impossible to “no way in hell are you getting a permit” even if you meet the qualifications.
Plus some places like Federal buildings , schools, bars, etc. make it a crime to carry even for a permit holder.
I won’t. And I’m not a bit against the use of guns for self-defense.
But first of all, I’d be arrested. Handguns are now legal in Chicago, but you can’t take them out of your house.
More importantly, I know how long it takes me to rummage through my purse when my cell phone is ringing its damn fool head off. If I had to spend as much distracted time and energy to find my gun, I wouldn’t stand a chance. Plus, I’m a fairly weak and clumsy person - the chances of a taller, longer armed, stronger assailant taking my gun away from me to use it on *me *are far too great.
Thirding Krav.
Krav recognizes that dealing with multiple opponents and weapons is a really bad situation no matter what and teaches techniques to maximize your (sometimes small) chances of getting yourself and your loved ones away unharmed.
Also… not to restart the wrestling discussion… but I’m 135 lbs. I don’t want to wrestle anyone, and I imagine there’s a lot of folks in the same boat. Any good system shouldn’t rely on the size/strength of the defender. Krav meets that criteria.
If you’re in the US, this may be an option - not a good option, in my opinion, but an option - most other places this is not relevant. You’re not going to be packing hear where I live for very long.
Any *universal *system shouldn’t; systems designed for specific types of people (such as large and strong) are perfectly fine. Not everything has to work for everyone - some things can capitalize on assets that its recommended practitioners possess.
You keep pointing out that wrestling and bjj are ineffective against multiple opponents which is true. If you are fighting multiple opponents it doesn’t matter your martial art, you are screwed. Even with a striking art somebody is going to hit you from behind or come from the side through a blind spot. It is true that wrestling is not a good art for the purposes for the thread, it requires more then a casual two time a week class to get any use out of it. However, you are underestimating it’s ability greatly.
Not to be a dick but at 135 pounds you are at a disadvantage with ALL fighting styles. Not just strength on the ground, but also with reach, power, and the ability to absorb damage.
Almost certainly true :), but that does not mean self defence is less beneficial to smaller folk. It may be the opposite since they don’t have any natural advantages to lean on.