Pretty standard advice that I’ve heard for years now. The Athenians figured the Spartans would beat them in battle so they retreated behind their walls. The Spartans started burning their fields and homes but still the Athenians refused to come out and fight. The plan preserved many lives but it brought Athenian morale to an all time low.
So what’s the point? Well, I wonder how psychologically damaging it could be for someone to not even fight back when attacked. It’s one thing to be overpowered but perhaps another to just give in without so much as an iota of resistance.
At my high school, Self Defense is mandatory for all freshman girls, and nearly every single move with the exception of the choke hold, is all about fighting on the ground/bringing the fight to the ground. According to my little brother who’s been on the receiving end of a few of them during our roughhousing, of the nine we learn most of these moves are wrestling moves. We also work on reaction time.
I’d say most people who take the class wouldn’t be able to beat an attacker, but they might be able to break free of a hold and run. Some of our athletes however, who look really skinny but have some major muscle might be able to fend off an attacker because of their strength and the shock value. I’m 5’8’’ and according to some I look like I’d beat the shit out of anyone who touched me, so I may not be the best example, but I could probably break someone’s ribs with my leg lock if I was able to get the move on them.* But I’m not going to test that little theory out.
One lesson our teacher goes over at least once every block (it’s a gym class, and there are 8 or 9 blocks per year, I think) is that the** best thing to do is run**. If you can’t/have very little chance of getting away, then fight back with all your might. Like **Poysyn ** said, most guys are looking for easy victims who they don’t expect to fight back. Another technique is to through whatever they’ve asked you for (wallet, purse, car keys), and throw them, then run in the opposite direction. This won’t work if they want you, but I think it’s pretty good advice.
That said, there are some moves that if you do sloppily, can seriously hurt the attacker by accident. :rolleyes: I have a friend who broke her leg when a freshman accidentally crushed her in a pull-down. (Less seriously, Mr. Biddy, our teacher, periodically gets a black eye or two.) So at least if you’re doing it wrong but have the right idea, then your attacker still gets injured.
I have a question though, what’s with all the high kicks? I can understand a knee to the groin or kicking someone in the shins, but if someone tried to kick me above the waist, my first reaction would be to grab the leg and try to pull them down.
I have legs of steel and have felt ribs move during practice bouts, but if that guy was strong enough and weighed enough, I know that I would probably be overpowered. I hold no illusions that I’m a superhuman.
As I said, their logic (which I assume is backed up with something) was just about not giving an attacker a reason to hurt you worse. If I’m overpowered, there’s not going to be a lot I can do except not make it worse for me. If that means just giving in and giving the guy my purse, then fine. I can get a new wallet and ID and stuff (although it’s a huge pain in the ass), but if I give him what he wants, he probably won’t physically hurt me, which would be far more damaging than giving in.
That said, though, if he is going to physically hurt me, I’m not going to rely on some kind of ordered, structured “right way” to fight back. It’s my person that’s at risk, and you bet your ass I’m going to fight back. I’ve seen it suggested that I walk with a lighted cigarette to burn an attacker (hey, if it works for some third-world nations as a means of torture, it’ll work for me). Whether it works or not, I dunno; thank Og I’ve never needed to find out.
Basically, the cops said that we needed to practice risk reduction by not making ourselves victims. You don’t have to fight back if you’re not in that position to begin with.
I know from experience that lit cigarettes don’t hurt all that much - unless it’s carefully applied for maximum effect - plus it’s a very fragile “weapon”. (Got one in the webbing of my hand while on a dance floor, and that same hand was instantly in position to punch out the wielder, but I held back as it was accidental.) As a torture weapon against a helpless victim, I’m sure it would be useful, but more likely than not, your attacker would be reacting even more swiftly than I did.
A serial attacker is trying to hurt you anyway, he doesn’t need any justification to hurt you further. If you can’t run, yell your head off and hurt him, then run.
I know you, and they, mean well by this advice, but it is frankly unmitigated bullshit. You can divide attackers into two general categories; drug addicts, wannabe gangsters and the like who just want your money with a minimum of fuss and do so by intimidation, who will be driven off by any significant resistance; and violent, aggressive predators who relish hurting people and can be presumed to do harm whether you resist or not.
It’s true that a 200 lb man can pretty much overpower any average sized woman. It’s also true that the standard Oriental-style martial arts aren’t effective on the street without years of intense training and conditioning. It is also true that there are certain areas on the human body that everyone is vulnerable to and which even a person of slight stature with minimum training can use to stun, injury, or even kill a much larger attacker, particularly one who does not have defense training and relies on brute strength to overwhelm his would-be victim.
I’m glad someone cited Marc MacYoung; as others have said, his rather brutish, no bullshit approach to melee fighting is a refreshing difference from the crap you’ll read in Black Belt magazine or see on the televisor. Much of fending off an attack consists of being aware and displaying the appropriate attitude. This alone can be enough to forestall an attack.
Back when I was heavily involved in martial arts we did self-defense courses for a few battered women’s groups and shelters. These were one day seminars where we taught a few basic techniques–how to get out of a bear hug, striking with the open hand and elbow, kicks to the shin and knee, and a couple of simple judo tosses. None of these women were experts at the end of the day, but most finished knowing that, if the worst comes, they could do something. We also taught them effective improvised weapons use–forget pepper sprays (ineffective against an aware attacker), stun guns (useless), and knives (a poor defensive weapon even for a skilled user); we demonstrated the effectiveness of the kubaton, the key flail, and my favorite nonlethal weapon, the flashlight; a 4-C cell MagLite is frankly one of the best weapons you can legally carry in all jurisdictions.
Understand, while we were teaching them techniques–some of which I’d like to think made them more effective in defense–our primary purpose was to teach them that they could, in fact, rely upon themselves and act in their own interests, something that most battered women have been trained (via abuse at the hands of fathers, brothers, boyfriends, and husbands) not to believe. I have no doubt that some of these women walked away equipped to fend of an “average” attacker; even wearing a RedMan suit I was still a intimidated by their attacks. Others, not so much. Certainly, none of them were going to floor an attacker with a punch to the chin, John Wayne style, but that isn’t the point; the point is to make enough trouble to drive away an attacker or let them escape and seek help.
As far as relying on communication via a cell phone, that advice is worse than useless. The police are not going to leap through the receiver and come to your aid; unless you have a particularly perceptive dispatcher, they probably aren’t even going to know exactly where you are at, and since most services still do not have aGPS capability, they aren’t going to be able to locate you by signal. In any case, you can’t expect a response time of less than five minutes in any jurisdiction, and going on up to double digits in many.
So, to answer the OPs question–a basic self-defense class isn’t going to turn a woman into Jet Li; even a more extensive class, or months of martial arts training aren’t going to guarantee that she can defend herself against a much larger, aggressive attacker. But the right style of training–focused less on form than on “what gets the job done”–can increase her chances of escaping a nasty situation with a minimum of injury or offense. Most of the training, in one form or another, should be focused on recognizing a thread and warding it off; the actual combat techniques should be as simple and instinctive as possible (a la Krav Maga), with the mindset of using any and all weapons available and with the goal being not to “defeat” the attacker but to disable and get away from him.
There’s some good advice on this thread. I tend to agree with Poysyn, as well as the practical advice of Stranger On A Train and BMalion.
Recently a guy abducted and killed a young girl–11 or 12 years old. He accosted her in front of a store and it was caught on camera. It made the skin crawl to watch it. They were right in front of the front door. They were right in front of the front door!
Perhaps that is the video Poysyn is mentioning. If only that girl had fallen to the ground and gone into forced siezures and piercing screams! Maybe her fate was sealed. Maybe not. I suspect that she would have become too much trouble for the average accoster.
The objective, from my point of view, is to stay alive. It’s not about winning, it’s not about disabling your attacker. You simply must become too much trouble.
My daughters saw that tape. Like that father, they have been taught to go to the ground and to become “all knees and elbows” and to scream. At any cost, they are to resist getting in any car, and to make the biggest scene they can. If they can run to a populated area, Run!
I don’t believe the average woman can prevail in an attack with the average man. In fact, I don’t think the stronger than average woman—including those with SD training—can prevail against a determined attacker. But I know some women who can raise so much hell that they quickly become too much trouble.
If the man wants your purse, give it to him! If he wants you to go with him, fight with all you have!
I’d rather see my daughter in the ER than in the morgue.
I taught a few self defense classes for women in my younger days, and they were all variations on the same theme - First, don’t present yourself as an easy target. Walk with confidence, be aware of your surroundings, learn to avoid bad situations. If actually attacked, we showed people how to startle or hurt their opponent, then run like hell. If you’re wearing heels, learn to stomp in the right place then kick your heels off and run. A key flail is nice to have, as is a Kubotan. Jab or scratch the assailant in a spot that will hurt a lot, then run like hell.
Don’t ever expect to grapple with a large man and come out of it in one piece. Weight DOES matter, as does aggression. Your attacker probably has both on his side. Don’t try to duke it out with him, or you WILL lose.
Various self-defense techniques for women all boil down to the same thing: Hurt/startle/frighten your attacker, attract as much attention as you can, and run like hell. But the best self-defense of all is to learn to be aware of your surroundings and alert to dangerous situations so you can stay out of them. There are little things you learn that can help - for example, if you get into a parkade elevator with a strange man, wait and let him press his floor button first. If he refuses to press a button until you do, consider getting off. If you don’t like the look of the guy, wait for him to choose a floor, then choose one a floor higher so he’s forced to get off the elevator before you do. If you have a remote door lock for your car, it probably has a panic button. Keep your finger on it as you’re walking to your car, with your keys hanging down so you can swing them into an attacker’s face if need be. That sort of thing.
I hope you’re wrong about the wrestling aspect of your HS self defense courses. That would be a truly bad direction to take an attack (not that wrestling moves aren’t helpful if things go south). Disable and flee should be the order of the day.
To answer the op question: Yes, absolutely. 1 day classes are probably geared toward situational awareness which is important. After that the course should provide actual contact practice. Knowing where to whack someone is different than the skill to do so. In an emergency people will react with the actual skill they have. It is absolutely necessary that full contact practice be included as part of the course.
I’ve had people jump me and was able to throw them on the ground with a standard Judo throw that I honestly couldn’t do as well in competition. Adrenaline does wonders for a practiced skill when the need arises.
I’m fully in favor of women learning self-defense, gaining upper body strength, and being aware of their surroundings. I spent six years in the Army and I’m all about empowered women.
Nevertheless, women are much more likely to be victimized by men they know than by strangers in a dark alley. Men are actually a lot more likely to be in the kinds of situations described so far in this thread, yet men don’t seem to give much thought to where they go at what time of night. False sense of security much?
I used to jog a lot, usually alone and sometimes when it was dark out; also it was usually a fairly deserted place, because let’s face it, running trails aren’t as well populated as shopping malls. And if I’d ever been victimized, no doubt 90% of anyone who heard about it would blame me for being where I was alone. But damnit, just because I’m female doesn’t mean I’m going to limit my outside activities to mall shopping with a group of friends or only go jogging with a big, strong man.
On a completely different note, I once read a news article about a young girl, around eight years old, who had been chased by an adult male attacker and ended up being assaulted by him in the ladies’ room at a mall or school or somewhere. Which leads me to say: please teach your little girls that a man who is chasing them *will * follow them into a ladies’ room.
Yes. I teach a program called SHARP: Sexual Harassment, Assault & Rape Prevention. I tell every student that this course will not turn her into Xena, Warrior Princess, but that it hopefull will help her not turn into a statistic.
In the last three years, I’ve had two of my former students tell me that they have used something that I taught them in an encounter situation. One of them diverted a possible attack, the other one successfully fought off an attacker.
I studied full blown martial arts for a few years and I think it helped a great deal, if only because I feel more confident, and thus carry myself in a more confident manner - hence making a less appealing target for an attacker.
Additionally, I learn some small, intensely painful tricks that a smallish woman could do on a largish man (assuming he wasn’t on PCP or something) that would totally disable him in a matter of seconds.
Another little snippet of advice: when on a bus or train, don’t take the window seat. Sit by the aisle, and if a guy wants to share your seat, just shift your legs sideways and let him get past you to take the window. That way your escape route remains clear. It has the added benefit that, if he’s got evil ideas in mind, he might just twig that you’re alert and possibly not worth the trouble.
“An ounce of prevention”, and all that. Never so true as in the case of women’s self defence.
The rationale behind teaching ground work is not necessarily that the ground is the best place to stage a defense. It is that it is going to go there anyway, and you need to be prepared. The BJJ-ers have been saying it for years, and Fusen-ryu before that.
My experience is that a one- or two-day session on self defense should cover only the basics - avoid dangerous situations, make a lot of noise, run like hell, make more noise, never stop fighting, never stop making noise, and don’t worry about embarassing strangers.
I don’t have a cite, but the Women’s Studies program at the University of Minnesota went into Stillwater State Prison and interviewed rapists on their MO. Most of them said that if they were doing their pre-attack “interview” and accosted a woman and she ran away, they wouldn’t bother to chase her. There was always going to be another woman who would be less trouble, as the raindog mentions.
The other thing I taught only developed later. Early on, I taught mostly the usual escapes and “knees, nuts, neck and nose” target areas and some standard strikes. Then my consciousness was raised, and I spent more time trying to teach “beware of the men you know”. Most attacks are not committed by strangers, and just because you dated him once or know his roommate doesn’t mean he won’t rape you.