has he actually said that? Or others arguing it?
The “court jester” was just voted 2nd Team All-NBA, becoming the oldest player voted All-NBA since himself, last year.
Based on the OP of this thread, we can only assume the “2nd Team All-NBA” is the professional basketball equivalent of the Golden Raspberry award, given out to the most embarrassing player in the NBA.
The word “2nd” caught my attention: " The All-NBA Second Team consists of the five players who receive the next highest number of points in the annual All-NBA voting. The top five players make the First Team, and the next five form the Second Team."
I fail to see how this counters my argument that he is not the greatEST player of all time. LOL
LeBron was named to the All-NBA First Team 13 times compared to Jordan’s 10, and he’s a 21-time All-Star to Jordan’s 14. However you slice it, there’s a legitimate case to be made for him as the greatest of all time—or at least better than Jordan. I’m not sure I’d make that argument myself, but I could be persuaded. There’s no fully objective way to measure it—it will always come down to debate. But in my view, there’s no strong argument that he’s clearly not the best. If people are even having that debate, you’re in the uppermost echelon. You’re in the conversation. To think he’s “a legend in his own mind” does not survive a cursory review of reality. You don’t become a 21-time All-Star and 13-time All-NBA First Team by being delusional.
No, but instigating collusion to get the teammates you want and meetings in smoke filled back rooms (Miami/Riley) are sure a big help. James has spent a career doing anything and everything to construct title teams. When Anthony Davis was still with New Orleans and under contract, he publicly stated he wanted him on his team. That was clearly illegal, but Davis got the idea and demanded a trade. James would not have one the one title he has with the Lakers if that hadn’t happened. He thought he repeated the same formula of success in getting Luka Doncic, but he got his ass handed to him instead.
Statistics are only half of the story in determining the hierarchy of great players. Guys like Dr. J, Bird, Jabbar, Magic, Jordan made the game greater and more popular. I think James made JAMES as great as he could and manipulated the game to do so.
NBA attendance was down 12% this year, and some of the lazy, crap basketball I saw is undoubtedly the reason. I believe that is why the NBA has suddenly changed direction for these playoffs by letting defense return to the game. So, before you quote statistics, remember that it is much easier to score now than it was during Jordan’s era. I can only imagine The King against Bill Lambeer’s Pistons. He wouldn’t be flopping, he’d be hitting the floor for real. LOL
I didn’t quote a single stat about scoring. The only stat I quoted was a counter to your counter about all-NBA teams, when you were trying to use a stat (or definition thereof) to diminish LeBron’s accomplishments. All-NBA is about your perceived relative worth vis-a-vis your peers, whether they are scoring a lot or not a lot. And, yes, thanks for supporting my point that there’s no fully objective way to measure it. Yeah, I get it. You don’t like LeBron. He comes across as a cocky bastard. So what? Doesn’t make him any less great.
That sums up the whole thread.
Pretty much. I’m not a LeBron James fan, particularly. But the guy is very legitimately in the argument for the greatest of all time and that he is still playing successfully as a top echelon player at 40 is insanely impressive. As far as personality goes Michael Jordan is legendarily an uber-competitive asshole, so no real advantage there. I’d retire already if I was James , but then I’m not a hyper-competitive athlete. As long as he is still added value and wants to play, more power to him.
As for load management - fuck the fans. Teams should be doing it more. The NBA schedule is a bloated grind that wears down human beings. Frankly they should lose 10% of games or more, but nobody wants to take the pay cut. Probably more considering how lengthy the championship season runs for a lot of teams. The health of the athletes should come a little ahead of the bottom dollar and a little more spectacle for the masses.
A trait which is nearly unheard of in top-level athletes, and certainly not shared by other NBA greats. (/s)
“Like Mike… I wanna be like Mike!”
Man was so insanely competitive that anybody who lived through the era would not doubt his desire to manage the roster ala LBJ. And it’s not as if Jordan passively watched Krause, et al, choose a roster in the first place. He lobbied hard for Horace Grant, nixed a Pippen/Kemp trade, and his buy-in was mandatory in allowing Rodman on the team.
Everything personality-wise you are complaining re: LBJ was also done by MJ.
Everything you just said is refuted by Jerry Krause himself:
“I’ll say this about him, he never came to me and asked for other players. He never came to me and asked me to draft a player. He never came to me to ask me to trade for a player. Never once did that happen. Part of it was he thought he was so darn good he thought he could win without them, I’m sure of that…Michael was smart enough to understand the organization and he understood what we had to do as an organization…He never complained to me.”
Everything Jerry Krause says is refuted by Jordan, et al. And the idea that Michael never complained to Krause, a man he openly mocked as “Crumbs”, is just ludicrous. Sam Smith’s book details many occasions that this happened, including Jordan lobbying for Buck Williams, Walter Davis, and Johnny Dawkins.
Did get the Horace Grant thing wrong though. Regardless, Sam Smith’s and David Halberstam’s books… even The Last Dance… talk extensively about Jordan’s desire to have more of a say in player selection.
So you are arguing with a dead man and calling him a liar. Ok cool. Well I’m out then.
I also recall this in The Last Dance.
(That was a fascinating series.)
If you didn’t want me to take you seriously, perhaps you shouldn’t have rebutted with a cherry-picked quote which was easily refuted.
Was also unaware that there was a limit on when we could say that people were not telling the truth. Richard Nixon’s ghost appreciates it!
ETA: Funny thing is, Jordan sucked at spotting talent. His Bulls-era suggestions sucked, his Charlotte draft picks sucked, he just sucked at this part of the process.
Doesn’t mean he didn’t do it, though.
You made a claim about Jordan and asserted confidently that of course he complained to Krause and demanded roster changes etc. I showed you an exact quote from KRAUSE HIMSELF stating that it never happened. I have no idea what else on Earth would convince beside the exact person you claim to speak for. Your hatred for Jordan and worship of LeBron makes it impossible for us to communicate. Also I didn’t ask you to take me seriously, I asked you to take the dead person you are trying to speak for seriously and believe what he actually said about Jordan. Or you can smear a dead man. Your choice.
What the hell are you even talking about? “Person I’m speaking for”? What does that even mean in this context?
Also, neither put words in my mouth nor ascribe to me motivations which you are unaware.
You should have bowed out as you said.
ETA: i see you typing. Please stop.
You are directly refuting the actual words of a dead man and saying that he lied. How can anyone debate you when you do that?
eta: don’t tell me what to do. This is not the Pit.
You’re right. You can’t even tell yourself to do something. Comment withdrawn.