Can you still get busted if the drugs you are trying to sell to an undercover cop are not real? For example, if the cops think they’re busting you for selling cocaine, but it turns out to be flour, can you still go to jail?
Google, “selling fake drugs to undercover cop”.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/couriertimes/news/news_archive/1208204.htm
“Theft by deception” instead of “selling drugs”, but you still go to jail.
You “can” go to jail. You won’t necessarily will.
They actually had this on “Cops” once, years ago. A guy got busted for selling crack but it turned out to be macadamia nuts. IIRC, they let him go after a bit of time in the station while they verified it, but with a good talking to about how some certain types of people might not find the humor in it and set out to do evil things to his person, and generally, he really ought to knock it off. Apparently he did it quite often. A friend of mine thought it was a good idea and started doing the same thing quite a bit, and actually made some decent money.
This reminds me of an old Simpsons episode where Homer is scarfing down free samples of macadamia nut cookies and the girl says, “Um, if you’d like to buy one they’re only a dollar” to which Homer replies, “Oh sure, get us hooked on them then jack up the price! Well, you win.”
Somebody once told me an anecdote (which I don’t neccesarily believe) about a “drug bust” that happened in Florida. The bag of shit the guy sold the cops was a bag of, well, shit. When they went back over the dialogue they had had with the guy completing the transaction, they realized he had very carefully never referred to what he was selling them as anything but “shit”, as in “you guys are really going to like this shit.”. They didn’t charge him, and the city was out of pocket for a really overpriced bag of fertilizer.
Perhaps somebody was embroidering on the old George Carlin routine, or if it actually happened, somebody was probably inspired by it. My friend brought up the story when we were discussing the Carlin bit (from the “shit” section in “the seven words you can’t say on television”).
Also,
“Why, this is nothing but a bag of SHIT!”
“But it’s really GREAT shit, Mrs. Presky.”
(Firesign theatre, or is my memory playing me false?)
Challenge me to a cite if you wish.
In Texas, they can prosecute you as if you were selling the real thing. I am not sure they actually go that far.
In Virginia, an imitation controlled substance is defined by law as a substance which, by appearance, including color, shape, size, marking and packaging or by representations made, would cause a likelihood that such pill, capsule, tablet, or substance in that or any other form whatsoever will be mistaken for a controlled substance. The possession or distribution of imitation controlled substances are prohibited in like manner as real controlled substances.
- Rick
holy shit i know that kid. he’s huge
I’ve always wondered about this whole thing too. If you’re selling vitamin pills to druggies for ten quid a go, surely (a) they deserve to be ripped off and (b) you’re doing them a favour anyway, since they won’t be killing themselves. I think this kind of beaviour should be actively encouraged.
A girl I met in a nightclub once thought the indigestion pills I always carry round with me were ecstacy, and was very offended that I hadn’t offered her one (since I was “enoying her company”). She grabbed one of my highly legal indigestion pills and swallowed it whole, and I decided to call it a day and clear off. Should have charged her for it in retrospect.
That’s well and good with vitamin pills. However, it could be any kind of crap, including something toxic. And it is fraud. I think that Virgina law sucks, it should in no way be considered the same as the real thing. What if I have a hundred pound sack of flour that I’m trying to sell as coke? Should I go to prison for life?
Still, if the cops are stupid enough to ask for “shit”, and get it literally, the seller should walk.
I wonder what totally dehydrated coca cola would look like? 
might be worth an experiment.
Dealer Drach :"Sure you dont want a whole kilo? I got a great deal on a whole truckload…
Junkie: Wha!!! Only $500 a kilo!!! Wait a min…let me go rob that liquor store down the street…
In Scotland, it would either be fraud, or attempting to supply drugs, depending on whether or not the “dealer” knew the drugs were real. If it were charged as “attempt” then the penalties are the same as if the “drugs” were real.
We have had instances of people passing off dog-worming tablets as ecstacy!
If the seller knows the drugs are fake, part of me thinks “Good luck to 'em!” If someone is stupid enough to buy drugs, then they deserve to get ripped off, even though what the seller is doing is illegal. The buyer is actually committing a more serious crime (in Scotland) although actual prosecutions are rare, as few people complain to the police that they’ve been ripped off. It has happened though!
If the seller believes the harmless item to be actual drugs, then why shouldn’t they be treated as if the items were drugs? The degree of criminal intent is exactly the same.
how does this work?!?!?!
From the article
Uh how did he recieve “stolen property” that was not and they probably had little if any reason to believe the funds were indeed stolen. Sounds more to me like the DA’s office is pissed that they bought into a phony dealer.
Receiving stolen property is a crime of “specific intent”; if you have the intent to perform the crime and perform the necessary acts to complete the crime, you have committed the crime; the fact that the crime is physically impossible is not a defense.
The “selling fake drugs” bit, on the other hand, is a “legal impossibility”: there’s no law against selling flour. There are laws against getting money by lying, including the “theft by deception” (also known as “larceny by trick”) mentioned above.
We had a thread a few months ago on the nuances of legal impossibility as opposed to factual impossibility here. Nametag hits the nail on the head. While there’s no law against selling macademia nuts, there is a law against deceiving people, and, as it happens, in some jurisdictions, a specific law criminalizing selling macademia nuts as crack cocaine.
The ills of drugs that the law seeks to combat are not limited to the damage done to the users’ bodies… legislatures also recognize the general potential for violent crime that follows drug sales areas. Criminalizing fake drug sales makes sense to address those sorts of social ills that happen even with fake drugs.
- Rick
If I remember correctly, about 10 years ago, Albuquerque boxer Johnny Tapia went to jail for selling soap powder to an undercover cop.
There is an ongoing issue in Dallas with regards to people who were convicted of selling drugs that turned out to be crushed sheetrock. Several of the convicted have be released (IIRC) and at least 2 cops are in serious hot water. There is more to the story than just the fake drug sales, but it is interesting to read up on. Here is the DMN archive on the story.
Dude, you sound just like a guy I know- a certain someone named Joey Jeremiah. He sold vitmains to Kathleen and Melanie on Degrassi High, and that was how he rationalized suckering 'em out of their money. Of course, they bought it, giggling in class and going “Smoth. Real smooth”, making for a very enjoyable episode of the world’s greatest show.
We covered this very topic in my high school law class here in Ontario, Canada. The answer is yes (for here anyway).
If I recall, it’s cause you still have ‘Mens Rea’ or the guilty mind. You thought you were commiting a crime, therefor you’re guilty of it. I’m by no means an expert and I’m sure somebody can give better/more detail than me, but as I recall, that’s the general gist of it.
wooba, I’m certainly no expert in Canadian law, but I am fairly certain your analysis is flawed.
Consider a store that has a dish of candy out with a sign that says: “Free - take as many as you like.” Not seeing the sign, I decide to steal the candy. I stealthily slip some into my pocket and hurry out of the store.
By your logic, I have committed a crime – I had the mens rea. Yes?
- Rick