Background: I was chatting with a friend during lunch today about gun rights and we strayed onto topic that we thought it was insane that people believe that an AR-15 would protect them if the government truly decided to be tyrannical. We posited that for a community or a state to defend itself against the government they would need explosives, anti-aircraft missiles, etc… Basically the same kind of argument that the army has.
This is where it got interesting. We then started talking about armed unmanned aerial vehicles. Drones. We are both educated engineers working in the aerospace industry (not that this really matters), and during this conversation we realized how simple it would be to build a drone armed with a firearm. We have access to a machine shop, Arduino sells the necessary electronics, we could build a gun or even disassemble one and mount it next to a camera on the drone with a solenoid as the firing pin. Hell, I think I could even build a closed loop aiming system for the drone using an invisible 830 nm external cavity laser to light up the target.
Now to the questions: Would this be legal to build? What laws would prohibit us from doing this? Does anybody sell something like this? Why not? I really think I could make good money doing this. If I made a small armed drone in the $5k range, I bet I would have thousands of buyers in the US alone.
Finally, bonus thoughts: this is clearly the direction the world is going. I actually know 4 different, unrelated, people who have built drones of varying sophistication. One of them actually built a multi-rotor helicopter that was truly a drone; it required no input from the controller and would fly a pre-determined path based on visual feedback and inertial signals from some on-board gyroscopes. This guy is a true geek though; this project is probably beyond most people’s ability. That said, it is getting easier and easier to build stuff like this. It is amazing the code and hardware you can find online these days. Where is this going to lead?
Note: I am not a gun owner. And while I am ambivalent about both the second amendment enthusiasts (can you say nutcase?) and the gun control crowds (the stuff you are proposing is either unconstitutional or will not have an effect!), I think it would be stupid in the extreme for this kind of technology to be legally available. I have no plans to pursue this beyond this intellectual exercise.
Although you never quite said so, the context makes me wonder if the intent of the armed drone project wouldn’t be the assassination of…well, someone.
And, yeah, to be fair, I doubt that most prominent public persons are currently protected against such a weapons system. A small, remote-controlled aerial vehicle, armed with a gun (or bomb) could very likely “get” anybody you might care to name.
But, then, the attack on the U.S.S. Cole could just as easily have been done via a remotely piloted speedboat, rather than as a suicide bombing run. The reverse implication still pertains: a suicide attacker can probably get nearly any prominent public person, so why bother creating a drone?
Especially since, if you did use a drone to get somebody, I’m pretty sure enough clues would be left behind to lead the authorities right back to you. So it’s a suicide weapon, in effect, anyway.
Meanwhile, so, okay, you assassinate Hitler… So the next guy takes over from him, stages mass reprisals against anyone who might by any stretch of the imagination be related to anyone who might have been involved. The next guy stays indoors, behind armored walls, and issues directives over a closed circuit. Now what?
No, I don’t want to assassinate anybody, I just want to exercise my rights as a God-fearing American to protect myself from tyrannical government. To do this, to have a chance, I believe I need to have a bunch of drones protecting my property when the black helicopters drop off the SEAL team.
No, seriously, would it be illegal to build, own, and sell this type of weapon system?
I can’t comment on state prohibitions against such a thing. Does it fire autonomously? It might fall under the NFA category of “any other weapon” which would subject it to NFA regulations. If you wanted to sell it, you would, at least need an FFL, assuming you made the firearm.
I am also curious about why you think a heavily armed populace would make no difference if the state decided to become tyrannical. Anyway, what makes the U.S. Army bad ass isn’t simply the weapons. I don’t know that an insurrection would win (assuming no army units joined them and they captured no heavy weapons), but I don’t think they would be a complete pushover.
Drones are regulated by the FAA and have to be approved to fly. I don’t think they’d approve an armed one. You can fly a remote controlled aircraft within line of sight without FAA approval, so you might be able to mount a gun on one of those. Something tells me this has to be illegal too.
For the purposes of this thread, I would have the firing mechnaism be controlled remotely, though it autonomously control the aiming. Say choosing a feature on a camera image and having the weapon lock onto whatever it was using some kind of image recognition.
I know that the army is badass for many reason. That said, the army has been pretty effective with the Taliban and they have RPGs and IEDs. If the Taliban just had AR-15s and 30-06s, how much damage would they do to our army units there? Note, I am speaking as someone who know shit about guns or the army, if I am wrong please correct me…
Anybody have comments on whether I could sell the drone if I created it? A home defense system consisting of a laptop and a rooftop launched drone with software that helps control/stabilize it. It would circle your property (unnoticed) at 1500 feet and could accurately take down targets you identify? Automatically locks on to skittles bags and has a 6" accuracy from that height. What say you?
I have to say that I find this whole conversation somewhat morbid and disturbing. Again, I have no interest in really doing this, I am just curious about all the ramifications, legal, financial, and whether something like this will be a reality in the coming years.
Hmmmm… Line of sight only. What if I mounted a camera on my chimney that always had the drone in sight. Could I then sit in my basement and pick off criminals wearing hoodies on my property? What if I had a drone that I programmed to follow me (using GPS) at a height of 1500 feet (line of sight) and then I programmed it to shoot at anything I pointed a laser pointer at. Or maybe I could use my I-phone to pick targets. This might be better than a concealed carry.
We had a GQ thread on the definition on drones. The FAA is still working on the rules governing them, thus in order to fly one, you currently have to get the entire drone program an experimental certification. That includes the FAA certifying the software, maintenance, pilots and everything. Otherwise, all you can do is fly a remote control model, and those are limited to 500ft, line of sight, and, I think, a person on the controls.
If you did that, then you’d have the gun issue. I don’t know about that, but I imagine there’s a law somewhere that says aircraft can’t be armed. Of course, models may not really fall under any aircraft laws. Other than the rules above, the FAA doesn’t regulate them, so there might be a loophole there. But I doubt it, surely someone has thought of armed models before.
Well, the experience of the last dozen years shows that the hairy chested super-patriots can be absolutely ferocious when confronting a President who merely makes a few common-sense suggestions to Congress, but they bend over and drop their pants for a President who ignores laws about torture and wiretapping, and lies his ass off about reasons to start wars.
I think the idea of a national organized resistance is laughable in any case. The largest unit would probably be the ambulatory members of a local VFW lodge or something, and half of them would go along if the government made up some threat to justify its actions. Gulf of Tonkin, WMDs, pretty much anything will work.
Wow, glad to see that you’re so unbiased about this issue. Just so we’re all clear, Republicans = bad, Democrats = good. Every belief, policy and thought coming from someone in the right is nothing but pure lies and pure evil in intent however, every belief, policy and thought originating from a person on the left is pure goodness with it’s entire basis covered in truth and universal goodwill. Does that about sum it up? Of course I left out that it’s “ALL BUSH’S FAULT”.
Yes, that is a perfectly accurate summation. Well, except that I gave one specific example of a Dem proposal that I called reasonable, and did not say, imply, or hint that all Dem policies are pure goodness. In fact, I just came from another board where I blasted the current Obama policy on using drones to assassinate American citizens without trial.
Or, if you knew any history, you could have just noted my reference to the Gulf of Tonkin.
I have a similar quibble about your bullshit extrapolation regarding Reps.
Having watched it again, I think it’s faked. I don’t think it responds like the recoil of a real machine gun burst would make it respond. Oh, and I don’t think he would blow it up at the end. Still, I don’t think there is anything particularly difficult about building such a thing, as there are already tablet-controlled quadrotors you can buy.