Those in opposition saying things like “repeal would cause a 30% drop in recruitment and retention” are dumb, even in the real world out there, the predicted problems failed to show up.
Scylla, since you support the repeal of DADT, have you called your Senator today?
America has many more Christian fundamentalists than those places, though, which is the real problem.
I think the even more compelling point is that, compared against speculation that a large number people will choose not to join the military or will leave it, we know for certain that DADT causes great harm to our military. In addition to discharging thousands of able and honorable soldiers, it leads to the loss of key personnel. Over 800 servicemembers have been discharged from so-called “critical positions,” which are hard-to-fill positions involving rare skills (including 10% of our translators, and an even higher percentage of Arab-language translators).
Yes, but even there one has to remember that fundamentalists did use religion to also oppose desegregation.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NXG/is_1_34/ai_94160906/
I see the same tale coming up regarding the gay issue, eventually (it may take decades but the change has already taken place) they will figure out ways to claim that all along **they **were in favor of doing the right thing.
Well, I’m watching CNN right now, and it looks like the Senate is going to vote to repeal.
Are the Republicans allowing this because the tax cut bill is signed?
But (a) that’s a different point from the one previously being made, that America would be just like everywhere else, and (b) I think homophobia is probably more inherent to Christian Fundamentalism than racism was.
Actually, that is acknowledging the previous point, we will get to be like the rest of the world even with the assumption that we are so different; IMHO like in other countries, it was the recent judicial rulings caused the tide to turn at last.
Yes. Well, the 6 Republicans who voted yes, voted that way because they support repeal and because the tax cut has been signed.
Yes, that’s a more precise way of putting it. The Republicans vowed to block all legislation until the tax cuts were passed. Once the tax cut was passed, the few Republicans who supported the repeal were free to vote for it.
Remember, though, that this is only a vote for cloture. They still have to vote on the bill itself. However, now the threshold is 50+, rather than 60+, so it’s 99% likely to pass, even if the Republicans who voted for cloture vote against the bill itself.
True. Is there any indication that any of the Republicans who voted for cloture will vote against the repeal?
No.
BTW, one Democrat and three Republicans didn’t vote on cloture. The Democrat who didn’t vote, whose name escapes me, had come out against it.
The vote will be held at 3pm Eastern so in about 90 minutes. A few more Senators may not bother to vote but there is no way it will fail.
Keep in mind this repeal doesn’t instantly mean DADT is off the books. What it does do is basically put it in the President’s hands to implement on a timetable. It is going to happen, just not overnight.
Manchin - WV?
Right. Repealing DADT just sets the clock back to 1992. It’s now up to the President and the military to implement a repeal of the rules against being homosexual in the military. DADT was, rather than the “improvement” that it was supposed to be, a giant detour that set the whole thing back 17 years because it took the whole thing out of the hands of the Executive and required a legislative repeal (which is the source of all the tsuris over the past two years) before new rules could be implemented to allow homosexual troops.
Raygun - Yes. John Cole (who is a WV resident) has been waxing eloquent about Manchin’s yellow streak on DADT for days now.
Vote is happening now. I’m watching on CSPAN2.
Wait. Is that really true? If this bill passes, is it then technically possible to be kicked out just for being gay? is there no verbiage in this bill that directs the military to not discharge people on the basis of sexual orientation immediately? Doesn’t it keep DADT in place until the new policy is implemented?
No, that’s not really true. This bill keeps DADT in place until 60 days after:
- The Secretary of Defense receives a report on the effect of repeal and how it should be implemented (the one issued back in November), and
- The President, SecDef and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff send a letter to the Defense committees saying they’ve implemented the suggestions in the report and are ready for repeal.
You can read the bill here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:6:./temp/~c1117wpNjS::
And it passes 65-31.
Bill passed 65-31.
I didn’t catch which 2 Senators changed their position from the cloture vote.
65-31. Woot!