About a year ago I posted about some septic tank problems we were having. The system was 30 years old and we ended up replacing everything, swapping out a 1,000 gallon cracked plastic tank for a 1,000 gallon concrete tank, redoing the leech field, etc.
So, a year goes by and we had the floor drains in the garage and basement back up a little. Maybe a half-gallon of liquid from each drain, but even a quarter teaspoon is too much. The water went back down, and I called the septic people. They took a peek in the tank and said all was good there, we should call a plumber to snake our drain.
I called a plumber and we used as little water as possible while we waited. The plumber ran water into the garage floor drain while watching the tank and no water entered the tank! He then used a tool to add pressure to the waste line. The ground at the septic tank bulged upwards!!
So, the assumption he made is the the connection to the septic tank has failed and he suggested contacting the excavator (separate entity from the septic people I initially contacted). I called the excavator and he is trying to deny blame. He said the entire waste line from the house to the tank is old, could have failed anywhere, and should all be replaced.
I’m calling him again today, explaining that I want the problem fixed. If he digs the area up and finds that he is not to blame, I’ll pay him for his time. If his connection failed, I expect him to fix the problem. Otherwise I’m calling someone else to fix the issue and, if I document that his tank connection failed, I’ll have my lawyer file a civil suit.
Are you willing to take his word for that? Are you planning to stand over him while he does the work? Are you capable of deciding who’s at fault? Will a court accept your word over the professional?
I’m with elbows on this one. You gave him a chance to come out, he refused. At that point I would call another company and have them come out. If it is an issue with excavator 1’s work, have excavator 2 document the issue thoroughly in pictures and text. Then ask excavator 1 to pay the bill. If he refuses, then it’s small claims court - and you would already have all the evidence you need.
My plan was to be present and photograph the area as it was exposed. If the excavator does not agree to fix his work, the plumber I had out yesterday said he’d be happy to take the job. However, he’d dig it up by hand and charge accordingly. He is willing to be deposed, take pictures, etc.
Nothing in writing. We live in a rural area. The excavator insisted on cash payment and there was nothing in writing. Yesterday I told the septic tank people that the excavator was not cooperating and they are pissed off at him. They think it’s his responsibility. They send business his way, and might stop doing that if things do not work out here.
Has anyone put a camera into the drain from the house and/or actually entered the septic tank?
From one direction or the other, someone might be able to see what’s going on, be it a bad connection or a broken pipe. But in any case, it could save some time. Well, kinda, I mean, you’re probably digging this up regardless, but if you run a camera into the pipe and can see a connection that failed or a pipe is broken, no one can claim that it happened during the excavation.
I talked with the plumber about this. He had the capability (for $285) to put a camera down the pipe from our garage. I thought just snaking made more sense, and we discussed pros/cons for a while.
When he saw that water wasn’t reaching the tank, he suggested adding some pressure to the line. Once he saw the ground bulging up (it was very Vesuvius-like!) he “knew” that the connection had failed and told me the excavator should be contacted.
Unfortunately, “he knew” it was the connection, might not hold up when I’d think it would be pretty easy to convince people that the geyser could also be produced by a broken pipe (that, for all you know, broke because the first guy laid it wrong, but that’s another story).
If this was done with a permit and inspected originally, you might consider having the inspector come back out and take a look at it. He may have some thoughts on it. He may even want to be there for the excavation. Hell, just calling the first guy and saying “I’ve got another company coming out on Saturday to look at it and the inspector is stopping by next week” might even be enough the get the original company to come out and deal with it. The thought of having to pay another company’s Saturday rates and/or having the city inspector see sewage backing up into a house.
In the end, if it’s not their fault, they get the job, if it is their fault, they might as well do it on their time.
But really, if a permit job, it wouldn’t kill you to call the city and have them come give their 2 cents. It’s what you paid them for.
Just to play devil’s advocate, it is at least possible that the pipe failed somewhere other than at the connection. One reason I dislike plumbing issues - whatever you fix/replace is only as good as what you connect it to. How far back do you go?
Apologies that I’m not clear on the responsibilities of the plumber/excavator/septic people. But you are certain that the excavator was the party responsible for this connection?
Final, ridiculously minor point: I know you live in the boonies, but I sure hope it is a “leach” field. :eek:
Nope, no permit. Typical for rural areas. I’ve never had a contractor suggest pulling a permit. That includes a deck, new roof on the house, new windows and siding, etc.
Yes, I agree it is possible the fault is somewhere other than the connection. The plumber was the one who said 99% of these are inlet failures and all the ones he has worked on that looked like mine were at the connection.
The excavator even admits that “if” the connection is the failure point, it is on him. His “argument” is that the failure could be anywhere, and, since water runs down hill it would cause the type of problem we saw. Everyone involved (plumber, septic people, excavator) admit that the excavator (who excavated and placed the tank) is responsible for the hookup. There is a “part” between my waste line and the septic tank (kind of a collar) and the plumber said failure, when it happens, is typically there.
Also, there are no trees anywhere near the waste line/septic tank. We never drive on that part of our yard, either.
Yeah, I misspelled “leach”. Eeeeeew. I’ve considered the idea of digging the area up myself, then suing the excavator for my time, but eeewwwwwwww.
Backflow valves offer cheap protection. There’s a flap inside that closes off the pipe if sewage tries to backup into the house. It can save thousands $ in damage.
A lot of cities require one in new construction that connects to city sewers.
I don’t know if they can be used with septic systems. It’s worth asking. They are sold in PVC or ABS.
All waste lines in the house empty into the septic system. The garage and basement waste lines have floor drains. (I am not a plumber, but it is the typical set-up). If the house had no basement, there would likely be a “clean-out” Y at some point, that could be accessed with a snake if needed.
ETA: Here is a schematic showing a clean-out Y (maybe my terms are incorrect) In addition, we have floor drains at the low point of our basement and garage. I can, for example, hose out my garage and the water goes down the floor drain.
Sorry. Again, where should the floor drains be going? I have a septic system, and a basement and garage, but no floor drains. Where should they flow to, because the septic tank is uphill from there?
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