Not for him. For us.
Might as well read another interview with Aisha that adds nothing to nothing.
I’m with you. Especially about the false memory syndrome - even when the first investigation happened, they were only getting flawed memories of flawed perceptions. At this date, people surely have consolidated a narrative into a “memory” that could be very different from what actually happened. In line with something Sarah mentioned, it could even be that Adnan killed her, but at this point truly doesn’t believe he did. Human brains can be weird.
And for me, that’s a large part of what the podcast was about: we know there is an actual way things happened, but there’s no way to access it. As Steven Novella has written,
Just finished listening to the whole thing, and my impression is still that Jay comes across as the most creepy person in all this. I noted the “helicopters” comment, too. And maybe I’m just not comprehending just how terrifying the police are for a black male drug dealer in Baltimore, but his story of just going along with his friend/acquaintance who’s asking for assistance moving a body…WTF? Even if you accept that not calling the police is understandable, that he could just go ride along with a body in the trunk is pretty frightening.
I guess Jay being sketchy doesn’t automatically make Adnan innocent, I know. Man, I’m going to be turning this over in my head for days!
One thing I was wondering, which someone also mentioned earlier I think–it’s not definite that Hae died on the 13th, right? That is, if we throw out Jay’s story. So shouldn’t Don, the boyfriend, have been looked at more closely? Especially since his alibi was corroborated by his manager…who was his mother?
Right, the only evidence that Hae died on the afternoon of January 13 is Jay’s testimony. The simplest explanation would be that she did die soon after her disappearance on the 13th, as no one claims to have seen her alive after that afternoon, but her body wasn’t found until weeks later. At that point they apparently couldn’t pin down the exact day of death through forensic methods. So as far as the physical evidence goes, she could have been killed at any point within the next few days.
At this point what I’m thinking is that Sarah Koenig has wasted our time and needlessly complicated the lives of people who had put this behind them 15 years ago.
If she was really interested in exploring the failures in our police and justice system then the final episode would have concentrated on that.
Instead what we got was a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders.
It really is an irresponsible exercise of the power of mass media.
I think I might agree with this.
In the last episode Sarah Koenig says, "When Rabia first told me about Adnan’s case, certainty, one way or the other, seemed so attainable. We just needed to get the right documents, spend enough time, talk to the right people, find his alibi. Then I did find Asia, and she was real and she remembered and we all thought, “How hard can this possibly be? We just have to keep going.”
Well pretty hard as it turns out. And finding that out brought a lot of people into the public eye in a way that is hard to justify for an outcome of “well we just don’t know.”
I would be furious if a reporter showed up at my work to ask about something that happened when I was in high school (they say they did this to Jenn and Jay’s interview makes it sound like it happened to others). If I had been Jay, whatever my involvement, I never would have talked to them. They were right, showing up at his door was a dick move.
For those of you who still care, here’s an interview with the prosecutor in the case:
Although late to the game, I just finished listening to all 12 episodes during this last week. I really don’t know which way I feel about who did it, although I’m sympathetic to Adnan’s plight that he can get a reduced sentence only if he pleads guilty, even if he’s innocent.
Guilty or not, I thought the weekly podcast was brilliant. This actually reminded me of Broadchurch (aka Gracepoint) - a short-run series, in which the identity of the killer, although anticlimatic, doesn’t really matter because’s its about how the story was told. I loved how Broadchurch gave us a view into interactions and lies and suspicions told in a small town, and Serial got me hooked into how inter-related these people’s lives were and how complicated life is. In Broadchurch the visuals of the seaside village were compelling. In Serial the music from Bad Dream gives me chills, and hearing a recorded “this is a call from” where-ever is going to make me think back to this story. I think Serial will popularize (repopularize?) podcasts, and i imagine imitators will jump onto the bandwagon with similar podcasts. Does anyone else think might be a movie or tv-series being developed that mimics this style?
The Maryland Court of Appeals has ruled that it will hear arguments in defense of Adnan Syed.
http://mdcourts.gov/cosappeals/pdfs/syed/cosaorder20150206.pdf
Interesting to see what happens. I’m still so torn on it!
First episode thoughts:
If Adnan did it, he’s a great liar. If Jay is lying, eh: Jay’s not such a great liar. In fact he sounds like a bullshitter.
Ep 2-10 thoughts: the state’s case makes no freaking sense. Is it even possible that somebody could be a psychopath without anybody noticing up to the event of the heinious crime? Psychologically, I mean. The dark stories about Adnan simply weren’t that dark or unusual given his age. (I don’t quite want to say they were typical.)
And sheesh, the guy was a player.
Ep 11 thoughts: Oh. Ok, that’s a plausible psychology. Adnan could have murdered Hae in a fit of passion, while earlier thinking about it without necessarily being serious about it. Would he have opened up to Jay? Maybe, but that sounds like a Jay-story.
The state’s timeline is still fucked and/or highly dubious though. I couldn’t tell whether there was a probable timeline for Adnan though. Weird that Adnan would solicit Jay’s help with this though: maybe Adnan hoped that if Jay was an auxillary he would shut up. If this was wholly pre-meditated was Jay’s involvement necessary? Of course if Adnan killed Hae, he probably had a streak of stupidity.
What are the other scenarios?
Jay encounters a killer during his life of crime and is blackmailed to shut up about it.
Jay makes a pass on Hae; Hae threatens to tell Stephanie, Jay kills Hae: he had already fantasized about framing Adnan.
Something else, but you have to account for Jay knowing where Hae’s car is. Even if it’s dumb luck.
Overall: Koenig’s chief motive in all this I think was to not get burnt. So while she established reasonable doubts in the mind of the audience, she didn’t quite drill down into either the core of ambiguity regarding eg plausible times for Hae’s death. Also libel.
Ref links:
Three part exclusive interview with Jay, published Dec 29.
Ezra Klein, the Jay interview and reasonable doubt from Dec 31st. (Shorter.)
Feb 7 update by Sarah Koenig on the recent legal developments.
ETA: I wonder about Patapsco State Park. That sounds like Jay was trying to unsuccessfully patch Adnan into a pre-existing timeline.
I enjoyed the podcast very much as a view into the atmosphere of the individuals involved. I’m amazed at the multimedia talents of the Baltimore Sun’s crime reporters. But I’m more than a bit puzzled by the editorial/investigative choices involved.
Case in point 1: The most important fact is that Jay took police to Hae’s car. I want to know everything possible about that. Did the police truly have no idea where the car was? Was there any evidence that the car was moved during the period of the search (e.g., was there street cleaning)? If Jay really knew where the car was, that’s proof positive of his involvement. I wish that the podcast delved into this further.
Case in point 1.5: Was the car in walking distance from the burial site? Was this a one-person job, or two?
Case in point 2: Jay and Adnan each report that they aren’t that close. That’s obfuscation, at least. What kid loans his car and his brand-new phone to someone who is not that close? And didn’t someone from the track team say that Jay picking up Adnan from practice was not uncommon? Again, time spent on figuring out the economic impact of butt-dialing could have been better spent determining what contemporaries said about the closeness of Jay and Adnan.
Case in point 3: I understand Adnan not expressing anger in his interviews. He’s had a long time to come to terms with his current circumstances. I don’t understand him not pointing the finger squarely at Jay, and sticking with it. He’s had more exposure to the evidence than we, and there is no way to rationalize Jay’s confession to grave-digging without Jay’s involvement. And if I’m Adnan, the only thing that I want to discuss, when it comes to Hae’s murder, is Jay.
Case in point 4: Is there any way to figure out who did call Hae after her disappearance? Three calls from Adnan late night the night before the disappearance, none ever after is pretty compelling circumstantial evidence against him.
Good questions.
Me too.
In the podcast, the distance from the burial site to the road was stated. The streaker claimed that he could see the fallen tree from the road, IIRC. But it was still some distance. In the interview, Jay claims he didn’t help Adnan move the body, though Jay’s word is unreliable. Presumably the killer moved the body to the trunk of the car on his own.
Digging holes isn’t easy and the job wasn’t that well done.
They hung out and smoked pot. I wondered whether they had a crime partnership or were planning one. I think there was some discussion of how close they were and if there were conflicting witnesses, Koenig would have discussed it. I suspect there’s no there there.
Bad mouthing somebody on the outside can only hurt your chances at appeal. Discussed in last 2 episodes. Far better to get other people to point the finger at Jay.
I felt that I totally understood Adnan’s stance. To wit, choose your story and stick to it. Don’t threaten, don’t speculate. Because even one false statement will destroy what little credibility you have. Even if the false statement was speculation.
I totally missed this.
What I want to see is whether there is a credible timeline that involves Adnan. Because Jay’s initial story is impossible and the one he eventually arrived at has plenty of evidence against it. But there might be a scenario that doesn’t involve clockwork timing or impossibilities.
Remarkable and interesting that the cops never searched Jay’s house or did DNA testing on Hae’s body.
Is it? Why?
ETA: Sorry, didn’t see “none ever after.” But that makes sense to me. If someone disappeared, presumably they’re not checking their cell phone and it’s likely if she did turn up, he’d expect to hear about it right away (from friends, etc.). Plus, wasn’t it established that Don didn’t call her after, either?
Was it stated that Hae had a cell phone? I thought that Adnan had called her house before it was known she had disappeared, and that not calling after it was known was pretty normal.
Good question…yes, that would be even weirder if he kept calling her house. I think she had a cell, because he was calling her late at night the evening before she died. After midnight, I think…don’t think he would have called her house repeatedly and risked waking her parents.
I think in one of the earlier episodes they talked about how Hae and Adnan had a system for calling into the house without disturbing her parents that involved multiple calls and Hae turning off ringers. I’m pretty sure Hae didn’t have a cell phone. I’m not sure if there’s transcripts of the podcast anywhere I could search for, though.
I’ve been googling to try to find out, but nothing’s coming up. (And I thought my obsession had subsided! Damn!) If Hae didn’t have a cell, then it would be really weird to try to contact her, since that would just mean calling her house–and pretty upsetting for her parents.
Reddit delivers!
[QUOTE=Sarah Koenig]
They had a whole system for this. One would page the other when the coast was clear. This was 1998, so not many cell phones around. Then that person would call some 1-800 service like the weather or the time and the other one would call in so the phone wouldn’t actually ring. It would come in through call waiting and the dozing parents would never be the wiser.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=reddit user j2kelley]
The call records show that he’s on the phone with Krista until about 11:26 p.m. on Jan. 12. At 11:27, he calls Hae and it rings for 2 seconds (0:02). He does this again at 12:01 a.m., then he connects with her at 12:35 a.m., where they talk for about a minute and a half.
Here’s how this makes sense in the context of their late-night calling system:
Adnan was on the phone with Krista when Hae paged him, prior to 11:27. He hangs up with her soon after that so he can call Hae back, but when her landline starts to ring he can immediately tell she’s not on the 1-800 line waiting for him to click in. (I was their age back then - I remember being able to distinguish whether a person with Call Waiting was already on the phone by the way it rang.)
He must have quickly hung up, and - as he wouldn’t call her house late-night without getting a page first - she must have paged him again around midnight, but he didn’t call back at the right time for that one either so he hangs up (0:02).
Unless Hae had another way for communicating to Adnan she wanted him to call her, she likely paged him one last time - right before 12:35 a.m. That is when, it appears, their system worked and they connected, talking for more than a minute. …
[/QUOTE]