Serrated vs. non-serrated knives

Are you using carbon-steel or stainless-steel knives?

While I don’t question your experience as a cook, and I agree that most people do not use a steel in a consistent or effective manner, you make a number of assertions that contradict materials science and tribology.

First of all, burrs in parent material are formed by cutting processes that are not properly terminated (the machining equivalent of not following through on a baseball or golf swing). Unless you are using your knife to cut into an even harder material that has sharp edges, you should not be seeing burrs on the blade. More than likely, what you think of as removed burrs is material that is ground off during the steeling process and if these are of significant size it indicates a blade that is not correctly hardened. Steeling should be done periodically to retrue the edge; that is, because the vast majority of people cut with one hand and to one side, the edge tends to wear on one side rather than the other, and squaring the remaining fine edge allows for a more symmetric cutting force. Truing is not sharpening and will only extend the apparent sharpness of the edge until it becomes to dulled to effectively slice.

The claim to never have to have blades sharpened in twenty-five years of commercial use simply boggles my mind. Even the hardest fine edge will wear and abrade with normal use which will eventually round or blunt the cutting edge. In fact, some very hard steels will actually dull quite quickly (especially in applications that have high abrasive cutting mediums) because they lack toughness and abrasion resistance, which is why a good balance between hardness and toughness is desirable is most utility knives, including and especially kitchen cutlery (with the exception of meat cleavers and other pure chopping instruments). Although not well appreciated, many fruits and vegetables are quite abrasive and can dull an edge more quickly than muscle tissue.

Sharpening a blade which has become dulled by normal use requires material to be removed from the grind just behind the cutting edge, which is why hollow grinds are preferred in most kitchen cutlery for easy slicing and longevity; the finest edge that has a thick grind behind it may score material readily but will not slice easily as the grind has to push the material laterally to continue to penetrate the medium. (With a blade that has a thick grind, it may be necessary to grind a shallower relief prior to the primary edge, but this offers poorly slicing performance than a proper hollow grind and single angle primary edge.) You simply cannot do this with a steel; even sharpening steels are inadequate for this task. Sharpening should be performed on a flat abrasive stone, and preferably a bonded diamond stone, as most natural stones are far too soft for effective sharpening of the hard tool steels that should be used for knife blades.

Although the use of oil as a lubricant is popular and even recommended with some low end stones, this actually creates a suspension of removed material that can dull the blade as you attempt to sharpen it. There is, in fact, no need for a lubricant–after all, you are trying to create friction, not remove it–and the stone and blade should be wiped with a soft cloth every dozen strokes or so to remove debris that may dull the edge. Only light pressure need be applied to the edge (if it is a large or heavy blade, the weight alone may be enough) and a thumb or clamp may be used on the spine of the blade to keep the angle consistent, which is critical to getting a consistently good edge. The edge should be honed on a fine stone (25 micron surface roughness), and for any slicing applications, should be followed by honing on an extra-fine (~10 micron) and possibly even stropping to obtain a highly polished edge, which will slice easier and resist dulling. Every stage in the honing operation should be finished by one or two alternating swipes on each side to remove the fine wire edge (sometimes called a burr, although not technically correct).

A really fine edge will catch and shave any soft but fibrous material (like a thumbnail) readily, which is a much better test than shaving or slicing paper. (Paper products, and especially cardboard, are highly abrasive, and it is is not advisable to cut these materials with a finely sharpened blade regularly; shears or a fine-toothed saw are better for cutting cardboard regularly.) Such fine edges will slice more easily–and thus used more safely–and will wear longer than an incompletely honed edge.

One of the arguments against serration is the difficulty in effectively resharpening the serrations. While this obviously can be done, it is a more tedious business and with some types of serrations requires specially equipment. The lightly scalloped edges one often sees on bread knives can be done with a simple round “rat-tail” hone; the sharper teeth you see on tactical-type knives (intended for aggressive cutting of fiber and webbing) require a fine flat or angled hone, and the little microserrated teeth you see on many inexpensive knives can’t and aren’t intended to be sharpened. Fortunately, the latter are almost exclusively used on cheap, low grade “surgical” stainless steel that isn’t hard enough to take a real edge and are inexpensive enough to be tossed and replaced.

I personally prefer plain edges for nearly all slicing (as opposed to sawing) applications because I prefer knives that can be used for clean slicing in both the belly and the recurve as they are more controllable than bevel-edged serrations. (Virtually all serrations are cut in bevel edge.) I find that a well-sharpened knife is nearly as good as a serrated blade for most soft fiber (like nylon or cotton) and plastic wrapping; for cutting polypropylene webbing and hard fiber like sisal, Dyneema, or Kevlar, I use either cheap stamped “trauma shears” that I buy by the dozen, or a hardened cable cutter, which are safer and offer better control than an open blade. I’ve used a number of recurved bevel rescue hooks but find that while they’re adequate for cutting flat seat belt type webbing when new, they quickly dull and actually tend to grab things and encourage the user to apply more initial force than necessary to start the cut, and can actually be more hazardous than a plain blade.

This is all drawn from my own experience in engineering and materials, along with that of a couple professional knifemakers that I’ve spoken with on the topic and Juranitch’s The Razor’s Edge Book of Sharpening. Your mileage may vary, but I’ve worked in and sharpened blades for commercial kitchens and food processing facilities, developed tools and methods for professional emergency response and rescue personnel, applied and tailored industry standards for design and testing of pyro-activated cutting, severing, and penetrating devices, and use knives and cutting instruments every day for work and personal use. I’ve found that even the newest super-tough gee-wiz crucible tool steels will require periodic sharpening with regular use, and for general utility use the corrosion-resistant tool steels like D2 and M4 are excellent blade materials with heat-treatment profiles that are well-established and familiar to heat treatment houses. However, even quotidian steels like 440C and AUS-8, if properly treated, are adequate for general purpose use, and especially for corrosive environments like food preparation or marine environments.

Stranger

Yeah, what Stranger said :stuck_out_tongue:

In any case: Non-serrated is definitely the way to go. As others have said: Get a couple of good, non-serrated knives and sharpen them once in a while (use the steel more often).

Wow Stranger! Thanks, that was very informative.

I’m not going to argue with you about physics or knife engineering. They are simply tools I use daily. I have always used Trident knives. I’ve never had to sharpen a chefs knife. I have had a knife sharpening service come in to take care of the generic kitchen knives that are provided for the prep cooks and new cooks that dont have their own tools yet.

I should also add that I’m not using a 20 year old knife either. I’ve given many away as gifts for some of the cooks and dishwashers that have performed admirably for me.

I use a large chef’s knife (smooth) for 99% of my prep. Serrated knives are only necessary IMO for cutting baked goods, and I don’t eat baked goods, so don’t own one.

What mostly everyone else said: Serrated bread knife, normal edge for everything else. If your chef’s knife can’t cut a ripe tomato, it’s time to get it sharpened.

Serrated knives are designed for righthanded people, so they are verboten.

I used to always use serrated knives for everything because I always found the smooth ones to be too blunt to cut anything.

But then we got the smooth knives sharpened. I couldn’t believe that they could actually CUT stuff so easily. Tomatoes, cabbage, onions, … everything was so effortless. So now I kind of prefer those, but will use serrated for cutting bread.

I never use the (cheap) serrated bread knife I have unless the other two (10" stamped French-style knife and 6" “utility” knife) are dirty and can’t be cleaned conveniently. I bake a lot of bread (not so much recently), and, honestly, I just tear at it with my hands, because I’m so damned hungry by the time it’s done baking.

Seriously, though, I’ve used fuck-sharp “smooth” blades on hard, crusty breads, and it works fine, IME. Just to echo some of the above. Once it gets its “teeth” in (in a manner of speaking), it goes through like butter.

Hmm. The OP talks about buying a cutlery set. That, to me, sounds like everyday knives, forks and spoons with which to eat meals, not the cook’s set everyone else seems to be talking about.

I’ve worked in restaurant kitchens, so I have a genuine appreciation of a good, sharp chef’s knife, but my budget doesn’t stretch to a knife of that quality, plus I don’t have the skill to keep a really nice knife sharp, so I compromise. I buy the super cheap chef’s knife from the discount store when I see them. Last few cost me $2 each and kept a decent (ie sharp enough to cut a tomato) edge for about a year. Then I toss them and get a new one, or pull the next one, because I bought a couple at that price, out of the the package.

Serrated edge for bread, Chef’'s knife for everything else. I rarely use my cheapo paring knife, but it’s there in the knife block. I think I have a boning knife, too, but never use it. Also have a carving knife and fork set, but that was a gift and I could get by without it.

I have a nice Henkel’s chef knife somewhere that I inherited… but it needs sharpening.

I would like to push the Kyocera ceramic knives.
https://secure.kyoceraadvancedceramics.com/products/cutlery/revolution-series.aspx
The price on them has really come down. The six inch chef’s knife is about $60. You will not keep you metal knives as sharp as the ceramic knives. I use mine for almost all cooking tasks. Cutting vegetables to taking apart a whole chicken. It can’t be your only knife but it will be your most used knife.

Serrated for cutting beef or bread; smooth for everything else. But that’s just me.

“Scalloped” serrations for my bread knife (not those god-awful ‘saw’ serrations - those only shred the bread!). For everything else, I use either a santoku or traditional straight edge knife - all in high-carbon steel. I know how to keep an edge on my blades, and I really dislike stainless steel. High-carbon steel takes a good edge, holds it, and is never a pain to touch up. A properly edged straight knife will slice your tomatoes paper-thin (if you know how to use it!).

I have five inch and a seven inch santoku knives, six inch and eight inch chef’s knives, a carver, one straight and one scallop-serrated bread knife, a couple fillet knives - one about seven inches, the other about ten, and a small variety of paring, boning, and utility knives in lengths from one and one-half inches to five inches. Oh, and a really nice, heavy chinese cleaver. A good cleaver is a god-send in the kitchen!

More important than having good knives, though, is knowing how to treat them, and how to use them - I can get good service from a fairly crappy knife, 'cause I know what to do with it.