Doper cooks - good knives?

Cafe Society
1

I’ve been eating on the Atkins plan for a few months now. I know many people think atkins is meat, eggs, cheese, bacon - but the emphisis is on vegetables. I chop up an ungodly amount of veggies every day and my $4.99 parer from Target isn’t cutting it anymore.

I would like recommendations for some good quality knives. I am not aspiring to be the Iron Chef or anything, but I won’t mind spending a bit to get some good quality knives. My main use for them would be paring and chopping veggies. Also, some ideas which knives for which purposes - I know there is a huge array - parers, chef’s knives, utility…the mind boggles to which knive to use for what.

2

If you ask around (which, I realize, is what you’re doing now), you’ll probably find that Henckels and Wüsthof come up most often in people’s recommendations. These are not cheap implements, however – an 8" chef’s knife, which is possibly the most fundamental piece of a knife collection, costs around $80. I know that Consumer Reports has tested knives in the past and recommended brands less expensive than the two mentioned above, so you may want to look into that as well.

As to which knives you’ll need for what purpose, if you take Martha Stewart’s word for things, a basic knife collection consists of five pieces: a chef’s knife, a paring knife, a boning knife, a slicer, and a bread knife. Plus, you’ll want a steel to keep things sharp. I’d say, though, that if your primary purpose now is just to cut up vegetables, a chef’s knife and a paring knife (probably around 3"-4" or so) should serve you well enough, and save money over buying an entire set. If you have the bandwidth (or patience), Wüsthof has a PDF brochure that gives brief descriptions of each knife’s purpose. Or, you can just keep it simple – if the knife fits, you can cut with it.

FWIW, Martha also has advice on how to slice, dice, and chop, and on knife care.

3

As I have recently gone through the kitchenware buying experience…

-The names most often repeated to me were Wustof and Henckels (why do I always want to type ‘Heinkel’?) Some recommended Sabatier.

-If you are buying a Wustof/Henkels/Sabatier, make sure you don’t their respective ‘value’ lines. I made the mistake of buying a Sabatier ‘Precision’ set. It was cheap, it had a name I recognized, it must be great! Nope, made in China, so-so plastic handles, and steel that is too hard to take a good edge. Research twice, buy once, or something like that.

-If your kitchen allows it, think about getting a magnetic strip to hold the knives, rather than a block.

-Don’t get the huge sets. My eyes were set a’glimmer by those 17 and 18 peice sets. The Sabatier set, (which I gave away to a nominally-liked cousin who got his first apartment), was a 14 peice set (including 6 steak knives.) I do a fair amount of cooking, but I probably could have gotten away with just a chefs knife and a utility knife. The scissors see a lot of use, but not with food.

In the end, I bought a the Wustof ‘Classic’ 10-peice set, which is of fantastic quality, but more than I need. Still, as my chef-in-training friend told me, “…it’s the last set of knives you’ll buy”. So either they are going to last forever, or Ivan is going kill me and take my knives.

4

I’ve got a Global vegetable chopper that’s out of this world. OTOH, I also have a simple serrated Betty Crocker knife that compares favorably to much fancier, pricier ones in many respects and only cost about ten bucks new.

5

Avoid serrated edges, they are hard to resharpen.
Get a steel and use it.
I like the cheapo Old Hickory knives, they can be resharpened easily, just remember to dry them after using.

6

We bought a midrange Wusthof set, as dearly as I wanted the next most expensive set. I said “Oh, I guess I’ll get those when this set is worn out.” The salesman just looked at me funny, gestured at the knives we’d already bought and said “those will last the rest of your life.”

Now, unless he knows something seriously creepy about when I’m going to kick the bucket, that’s pretty high praise. Especially coming from a salesman who could have persuaded me to trade up in a few years. (We got the “classic” with the riveted handles, I rather wanted the “Culinar” that were made of a single piece of metal, including the handle, but we couldn’t really justify the price difference.)

Our set includes a paring knife, a chef’s knife, a bread knife, a cook’s knife (a little longer and narrower than the chef’s knife, but I really have no idea why they have different purposes, being a neophyte to the world of serious cooking) a flexible boning knife (I love this one, even though we don’t actually use it for its stated purpose. It’s thin and flexible and downright handy) and a pair of kitchen shears. That’s more than enough different knives for us to work with. Oh, I did add a mezzaluna for fine mincing, it’s brilliant for getting things really comprehensively tiny.

My husband is vegetarian and we only cook vegetarian at home. The chef’s knife is fantastic for chopping up large amounts of vegetables, say, for preparing soup. The paring knife is great for cutting fruit, and I also use it on chilli peppers or anything else that needs a delicate touch. The flexible boning knife comes in surprisingly handy, though you could probably do without one if you’re not cooking much meat.

This is not an endorsement of Wusthof over any other quality brand of knife, by the way. Any good set of knives, properly cared for, should last you a long time and repay your investment in them. It truly is a joy using good knives in the kitchen, especially if you’ve been using cheap ones. The difference is remarkable.

7

I’m going to contradict everyone above, because, frankly, they’re wrong. :wink:

DON’T buy Henckels or Wüsthof.

In fact, don’t buy ANY stainless steel knives. If you’re serious about your knives, buy only carbon steel, and a decent sharpening stone.

The above-named knives, which again stay away from, have become popular as people have become lazy. They’re made out of such hard stainless steel that they hold their edge for a relatively long time. This is seen as a boon to people who are too lazy to actually take knife to stone. But they don’t keep their edges forever, and will eventually become more and more dull.

Unfortunately, since they’re made of such hard steel, you CANNOT SHARPEN THEM at home, and must take them into a professional knife shop to give them a new edge. (The steel rod these lazy people use will help you keep the edge longer, but doesn’t actually sharpen the edge; it only straightens it where it becomes bent and dented from use.)

If you want a really sharp knife, that is always just as sharp as you want to make it, you will use a carbon steel knife.

Carbon steel is softer than stainless steel, so it doesn’t keep its edge as long, but it’s–here’s the key–just soft enough for you to be able to sharpen it at home, on a standard whetstone.

So if you have a carbon steel knife, you can give a quick sharpen on your stone, and keep it RAZOR SHARP from use to use. With a stainless steel knife, it wil be razor sharp to beging with, but will gradually become duller and duller, and you won’t be able to do anything about it.

So. To recap:

Carbon steel, cons: strictly cosmetic; subject to darkening and rust, must be rinsed after each use or will rust–any easy enough habit to get into, believe me.
Carbon steel, pros: will always be just as razor sharp as you’d like, with a few passes over a stone.

Stainless steel, cons: cannot be sharpened at home, so will gradually become duller.
Stainless steel pros: shiny!

Unfortunately, due to the ascendance of Convenience and SHininess over utility and excellence, carbon steel knives are hard to find nowadays. The internet of course makes this less of a problem. However, they were easier to find in the past, so my best knives have all been found at flea markets and thrift stores. I have some knives that I bought for $1, because they had a few rust spots that I steel-wooled right off, that Sabatier would sell for $180 today.

You can also spend a great deal of money on a whet stone, if you buy it at a fancty knife shop. I bought mine at a hardware store, a stone intended for tools and axes and chisels, etc., for a few bucks. So I’ve spent less money than anyone I know on my knives, and I have the best knives.

8

I like Earthling’s advice. I cook at home all the time, and basically, I use just one little paring knife I bought at a little kitchen supply shop on a street corner in Paris 10 years ago (brand: Au Nain). I using a sharpening stone to keep the blade sharp, and it’s amazing how versatile it is. It would be nice to have a big chef’s knife or a Chinese meat cleaver, instead, but I don’t really prepare huge portions of ANYTHING, so it would not get so much use, and I really don’t have any space for it in my little kitchen.

9

Sorry, but this is largely nonsense. Stainless steel comes in all different grades. I sharpen my Henkel knives all the time with a very simple $10 honing tool, and the resulting edge lasts quite a long time. I’ve had them for years and they remain razor-sharp. They have the additional attraction of being extremely well made. Carbon steel blades are fine if you don’t mind sharpening often and don’t mind dealing with the rust and staining issues.

If you buy two or three basic knife shapes, they will serve you just fine. You can always add to the set later. I would get a small paring knife and an 8" chef’s to begin. I prefer the Henckel 5-star because of the ergonomic handles, but most of their cutlery is good quality. I’m not very impressed with Sabatier.

You don’t need a whetstone, unless you are experienced at sharpening blades. If you don’t use the correct angle while sharpening the blade, you accomplish little. Ditto for a steel, although many folks prefer them. I continue to use a tool called an “Accusharp”, which is available in most sporting goods stores for about $10. It has tungsten carbide hones and keeps the blade at the proper angle while sharpening. Restores an edge in just a few strokes.

Remember to never ever put your knives in the dishwasher. If they have wooden handles, they will deteriorate. In addition, the action of the dishwasher causes the knives to bounce around and get dulled more quickly.

10

Checking at the link Earthling provided with the pdf, I found the name of the modell I think you should get first: Santoku. People will tell you to get a chef’s knife. Well, mine has been gathering dust for five years since I got a knife shaped like the santoku. This is basically the knife you see sushi chefs use, and for a good reason too.
Chopping, dicing, cutting - it’s all made easier with this knife, due to the shape of the blade.
What make to buy? I’m partial to Sabatier and Victorinox. Global looks good, but are overpriced.

And re: carbon steel. I used to have a filet knife in carbon steel. True, I’m too lazy, so it ended up dull and dark. Lissener does have a point, but I can actually afford to buy a new $50 knife every other year without it hurting my economy. YMMV

11

News to me as well, I keep my Wusthof Grand Prix razor sharp at all times. Its pretty easy actually, I use the hone every time I use the knives.

Remember, you aren’t trying to sharpen the knife each time. Since the steel is hard, your veggies aren’t going to dull the knife per se, they are simply rolling over the very thin metal edge (wire edge) which makes the knife feel dull. Using the hone straightens out the wirre edge giving a you a sharp edge again. Over time the wire edge may wear down or even chip (haven’t seen it myself but I suppose it happens).

When this occurs you need to create a new wire edge. This takes a bit of effort but when you figure it out it is actually fairly simple. Google on “Scary Sharp” for the method I use, it was designed for woodworking chisels and such but works fine on knives.

DO NOT DO NOT hand your knives over to those traveling sharpening guys who havea big ass piece of concrete (it seems) to sharpen!!! My ex wife did that once when I was at work and it took me hours to get all the damaged edge off and put the proper bevel back on, my Chicago Cutlery cooks knife still has marks on it :mad:

Another easy alternative is the Lansky ceramic rod system. It requires you to hold the knife at 90 degrees, but that much easier for most people than trying to eyeball a 10-15 degree angle when holding a curved knife edge to a stone.

12

I like my santoku as well, particularly when having to scoop up what you have chopped. It takes a bit of getting used to because of the broad blade. I used to have a carbon steel Chinese chef’s knife that I really liked because of the scooping ability, but that one takes some practice to keep the blade from rolling over on you.

I meant to mention something before about storing good knives. Throwing them in a drawer is a bad idea on a couple of levels. Firstly, it’s a dangerous practice and secondly the knives get dull quickly from banging into each other. The best storage is possibly a vertical wood block, but these are not easy to find and most folks don’t have room for the vertical ‘pull’ under a cabinet. Most blocks are canted at an angle for each of use. I would recommend storing the knives dull side down in one of these blocks. Even though the wood is soft, it will dull your blades more quickly if stored sharp side down. The blades will also take a toll on your storage block. I’m not a fan of magnetic holders, and wouldn’t recommend them to anyone who is a klutz, but that’s just personal preference.

13

I think everyone is overlooking a major issue and that is the ability to handle the knife.

I’m a professionally trained chef and I think you only need three knifes, a chef’s knife, a paring knife and a serrated or bread knife as well as a steel, the honing tool. I have a stone which I don’t use because I found it so much better to take it to a knife shop to have them sharpened which I did once in the last two years.

The chef’s knife should be a good quality blade, carbon, stainless as long as it is a good quality. The three or four brands are good, but you should look for 1) a full tang (the blade that goes through the handle). 2) a good handle that you like (globals are metal and I don’t like them, I don’t like plastic, but prefer wooden) and 3) the correct size which will depend on your hand size and arm strength. An 8" knife is a good size for most homes.

Learn to use a steel, it makes all the difference in the world. A very cheap knife will dull faster than a very expensive knife, so a steel is needed more often. But with a steel, they both will cut for home use.

Another alternative is to go to a knife shop (in chicago, Northwest cutlery) and talk to them. They even have used knifes which is a great way to find a great knife cheap.

Also, don’t put the knife in the dishwasher. It can ding the blade and can ruin a wooden handle. Wash by hand. To cover them, they sell knife blade covers, I think they are better than a block. I don’t like metallic strips, I’ve had too many cuts from brushing up against a blade to keep it exposed.

14

I’ll weigh in on the necessities:

I prefer cheap chinese cleaver to a chef’s knife, but I have a paring knife, a filet knife, and what I call a carving knife (as long as a chef’s knife, but not triangular in shape: blade parallels spine) to compensate. With these four knives I have all the versatility of the standard four, but the cleaver is better for SERIOUS chopping, IMHO, than the chef’s knife, and I couldn’t peel a butternut or “filet” a melon without it. Plus it only cost me $3, new, in China town. And it stays razor sharp on my hardware-store whetstone.

15

I have a mid-price set of Henkels that I keep in a block. I take them to a shop to be sharpened when required - the chef knife needs to be sharpened about once a year, the utility knife maybe once every couple of years; haven’t needed to sharpen the other ones. Cost: $5/blade.

About the OP: If you are getting by with just a paring knife now, you could just buy a cheap $10 chef knife and it will make that chopping a lot easier. It won’t hold an edge very well, but if your finances are limited you will still be much better off than with what you have now.

16

Purists will probably go bugshit but I use a store brand (same weight and design as a 4-star but half the price on sale) chef’s knife and something like this to sharpen. As long as I can cut through carrots like they was butter, that’s all I need. Whatever you get, it ain’t worth jack if you let it get dull.

17

I did an ungodly amount of research (and posted a thread in IMHO- search for it under my name and knives) and played with a buncg of knives before settling on Wustof Grand Prix knives. I bought a nice Wustof oak block, a larger chef’s knife (bigger hands), serrated tomato knife, and a parer to start (along with a Steel).

The knives have been a dream. I added a set of the steak knives (a luxury) and the santoku as a treat. Also, don’t use them on a hard plastic cutting board- get a real wood one. I got one free with the purchase of the santoku (which was on sale at Amazon- plus free shipping).

18

Here it is:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=176411&highlight=wustof*

Enjoy!

:slight_smile: