We’ve had a few, usually very brief threads about dubious “service animals” in the past. And I remember a little feature (I think on VICE, although I can’t find it at the moment) where a lady used different animals and claimed they were “service animals” or “support animals” and managed to get a snake, a pig, a llama etc. into stores and restaurants in NYC with little or no trouble.
When they got their first notice, their removed the goats the next day, but Mr. Held slipped back into depression. So they got a “prescription” from their doctor listing the goats as “emotional support animals” and brought them back home. At some point the city found out and wants them gone (again).
Are these legitimate service animals? Should the city accommodate the Helds and their goats? Must the city accommodate the Helds, now that a doctor has weighed in?
For those that are sympathetic to the Helds, in your opinion what animals would not be acceptable service animals and why? Could I have an emotional support Grizzly bear? An ostrich? How about a service polecat? A therapy anteater?
I’m interested in the specifics of this case (I think there are a lot of interesting legal and/or medical issues that could come up), but I’m also interested in a larger dialogue on the validity and appropriateness of “service animals” that ARE NOT trained rescue animals, seeing eye animals, or other well-established tasks which animals are trained to do by and for humans.
Goats have a lot of personality. It wouldn’t surprise me that interacting with them, plus the daily routine and responsibility of caring for them, might be good for a person with depression. Also, goats are the world’s best poison ivy killers, which gives them a temporary pass, imo.
But keeping livestock in a city is a health hazard. There are a good, important, reasons to zone them out. And these aren’t itty bitty pygmy goats either, by the looks of things. That’s a big honking goat, the guy is hugging. If you live in a city then city health has to be the paramount concern.
On the upside, most of Ohio is shockingly rural. I really don’t believe they’d have any trouble finding some nearby space for their flock.
Seems like he’s finding peace because he’s caring for animals. I think he should try a few dogs or cats (or gerbils or guinea pigs, or parrots, mice, or rats, or ferrets, etc.) and see if that helps him with his depression. If not, I think he should move to a farm.
What are the chances that goats are the only animal that brings him peace? What if elephants were the only animals that would do it for him? (That would be awesome, BTW)
Oh, let the guy have his friggin’ goats fer chrissake - unless they have a habit of getting over/under/through the fence and eating the neighbors’ plantings (as a gardener, not seeing goats makes me happy).
I suspect the usual suburban critters (raccoons, especially, due to internal parasites) are a far greater health hazard than a few goats.
I don’t know why goats are a health hazard, nor whether this guy lived in the city proper or the suburbs-- sometimes if you are in the nebulous region between what constitutes that actual city, and what is rural, you can get a variance. There was a horse in the subdivision (on a pretty big yard) where my aunt and uncle lived, and some other people had two chickens. There was also some rule about rabbits-- that you couldn’t have more than one in the city, but you could have up to four in the suburbs. I looked it up once. It probably had something to do with “accidental” breeding.
I usually have very strong opinions about service/therapy animals, but on this one, I’m torn between two “mehs.” One is, so he has a goat, big deal. It’s not a slippery slope. It’s a case by case. Just because you let him have a goat doesn’t mean you have to let someone else have a rhino. The other one is “Seriously, dude, did you even try a dog, or did you go straight to goats? what’s up with that?”
Whatever they do, move to a rural area, or get a shelter mutt, I hope it works out for him.
I am pretty sure about one thing, though. I think it was a few years ago that the courts laid down the law that only the species were protected as service/therapy animals: dogs, cats, and miniature horses.
Goats in the city are no more a health hazard than dogs or cats–less, in fact, since their poop doesn’t stink like a carnivore’s does and doesn’t carry parasites like cat shit does. And cats leave theirs everywhere, goats stay in a pen or in the yard.
I live in Portland OR, within city limits, and we’re allowed to keep up to three of all sorts of livestock–hens, ducks, goats, etc. My neighbor has a goat and she’s much less annoying than the Boston Terrorist who lives across the way from her.
In fact, Portland has its own herd of goats–the Belmont Goats were a herd that became homeless and have been adopted by the city. They live not too far from me and people stop by the Boy’s and Girl’s Club where they live constantly to play with them and enjoy their silliness. Goats are also about the only critters that will eat the ubiquitous invasive non-native Himalayan blackberry that plagues most of western Oregon. Having a herd of goats on call means getting rid of more blackberry for less cost and effort than using standard brush clearing methods. Goats are pretty awesome. https://thebelmontgoats.org/
I think once you’ve bonded to an animal it’s going to be deleterious to get rid of them. And goats are very engaging, social, funny and responsive to humans. They’re very easy to get attached to.
A lot of people - myself included - would “feel better” if allowed to bring their pets where they generally aren’t allowed. The fact that they can convince some quack to write a prescription is - IMO - insufficient reason to allow them to do so. This whole “therapy animal” business is way overblown (IMO). Of course, I feel any number of mental/emotional impairments are overdiagnosed as well.
The law is probably arbitrary, but given that the law is in place, it seem incumbent on the goat guy and his doctor to demonstrate that a therapy dog or cat (or 3 dogs, if need be) can’t serve the same purpose.
Man, I worked at a zoo. We had about two dozen assorted goats & sheep, plus llamas, big horns, and kudus, to name a few. I am here to inform you that goat poop stinks like it’s trying for the Stank Olympics. It reeks. It multiplies. It’s a medal contender, I am telling you.
I know this for a fact because I was the one cleaning it up.
I honestly can’t believe that I have to explain to people here that you do not want livestock urine and feces near your house. Goats can spread diseases including e. coli, salmonella, listeria, bruccellois, and anthrax. Goat urine can turn a pen into mud.
And don’t bother talking cats and dogs to me, because I also don’t agree that pets should be allowed to roam off leash or that pet owners should let their dogs poop freely.
And when talking about urban goats, the problem is multiplied by population density. The problem with allowing goats in the city is not this one dude and his couple of goats. It’s having lots of people deciding to get goats, in close quarters (because who doesn’t like goats? I know I do), where there will be run off from their yards when it rains or snows. This is not healthy for a high density area.
Granted, Grand Rapids Ohio is pretty much the definition of a low density area. I still don’t blame them for telling people to drive the five minutes to rural areas to keep their livestock.
I would like some goats, myself. I sympathize with the guy who wants his goats. I don’t see anything wrong with telling him to move his farm animals to place zoned for farms.
My Dad managed several apartment complexes. One of his ‘horror’ stories was about a woman who wanted to keep a potbellied pig in her 1st floor apartment. The company took it to court to get her to give up the pig or move. She was on subsidized housing and got a doctor to prescribe the pig for her bipolar/ depression disorder. She won the case. They had to let her keep the pig. When she moved out 2 years later the apartment was unlivable. As far as I know it still is, some 5 years later!
Is an “emotional support animal” necessarily a service animal? Or is there a distinction? It seems like this guy just wants to have the goats. It doesn’t sound like he’s trying to take them into places where pets aren’t allowed by calling them service animals.
My cat is a menace. I bend over and she jumps onto my shoulders. Hell, I stand up and she leaps on my shoulders. I get in bed and she snuggles down against the back of my knees so I’m immobilized from the waist down. I cross my leg to put my sock, ankle/foot orthotic, pant leg, and shoe on and guess who has to sit on my lower leg. She provides aggravation. Though I’ll admit when she does the same stuff to my roommate I think it’s awfully amusing.
Even as someone with depression, I find the quirks of emotional service animals to be strange. Find one which is legal to keep. I don’t know if there will be much of a debate on this.
And this is the critical part that a small number of people will abuse, but note that number 2 would filter out a lot of the people who abuse this right to bring pets everywhere they want.