Ali, no question in my mind, in both scenarios. And I’m a big fan of Lee.
They may be interpreting the poll response as an MMA match.
Saw something on tv that evaluated kicks as part of martial arts compared to punches, and it really came down to punching.
Kicks can unload immense power, but they are far far slower than punches, and also leave the kicker vulnerable for plenty enough time for a pro to counter effectively. Lee is simply not going to get a useful kick in on a pro boxer, not happening.
As for street fighting, just why does anyone imagine that a pro boxer can’t mix it in that scenario either? The reason that boxing has rules is to ensure the participants don’t kill each other.
When boxing goes to the inside, there’s plenty of street level stuff going on. Takje away the ref and there would be one whole lot more.
In a boxing match: Ali. Weight, reach, experience. Lee would be hamburger.
In an MMA fight: Hard to say, but I lean toward Lee. The weight and reach thing would still be an issue, but experience goes to Lee - I doubt Ali would be very effective kicking or grappling.
In a street fight: I was all set to say Lee in a a cakewalk, but when you get right down to it, there is no greater equalizer than the street. What one knows in the ring can be cancelled by a quick kick to the gruenies or a lucky poke to the eyes or whatever.
It seems to me that “maybe Bruce Lee”, pretty much always means “no”.
If by second order you think I mean no good, then you are wrong. He was just not in the top echelon that among heavyweights only a handful of men have attained. Ali, Louis, Holmes, Holyfield, maybe Marciano and maybe now the Klitchkos are an elite set of heavyweights unmatched in ability over time (not to say I may have forgotten someone on that list).
Norton and Frazier were second rate fighters at that point as well. Norton would continue to improve, but Frazier was nearly shot. And Foreman was much bigger than both men. Foreman lacked form and stamina at that point. He came back to a major slugfest with Ron Lyle, and then lost to Jimmy Young, a very small heavyweight, before his first retirement. Only later in his comeback did he display the type of dedication to training and developing his skills that made him champion again. And even in the midst of that he lost a fight to Tommy Morrison, who was no better than 3rd rate.
Foreman at that point in his career resembled Mike Tyson. A fearsome puncher, but unable to beat the very best.
If I understand you, then, you would say that Ali NEVER fought anyone of the highest order–though you may count Larry Holmes therein when Ali was lost to Parkinsonism. Neither did Joe Louis, until he was past his prime and fought Rocky.
I’d say it’s pretty difficult to deny that Frazier and Foreman, both ranked within the top 20 heavyweight boxers of all time in most polls, were not fighters of the first order. Your milage may vary.
Also, to pick nits, Foreman only outweighed Norton and Ali by 10-12 pounds each, and they were all within an inch of each other in height. I wouldn’t say he was “much bigger”.
I’d count Frazier in that group, but only for a short time. Louis never fought anybody at that level. And yes, except for Frazier in the first fight, Ali never fought someone at that level in his prime. It is such an exclusive group, they rarely do. I’m not sure I can even count the Klitchkos, they have both had sporadic careers. Marciano only fought Louis from that crowd, and we all know Louis was way to old then. In the lighter weight divisions it’s easier to make a superfight. Fighters can move up and down from their weight class, and sometimes there’s just more than one A+ fighter in a division. This is rare in the heavyweights. I consider Ali-Frazier 1 to be the greatest heavyweight fight of all time. Never have two heavyweights operating at that level fought before or since.