No dodging responsibility, this is a hypothetical.
I agree about the fence totally, you can see the barbed wire. You cannot see the spikes you back over. You don’t even see them when you go over them, which if you could, at least would give you the mental image of the spikes, and what spikes can do to tires.
Jodi, I see your point about active/passive, but I personally don’t feel the distinction is relevant when the end result is, if you don’t follow the rules of the parking lot, you will suffer damage to your property, whether it be spikes or the manager runs out with a machete and slashes your tires.
Phase42, a barrier arm would serve the same purpose without damage.
It seems to me that the difference in scumpup’s example is that he can do something reasonable about the car staying overnight in his lot. He can have it towed. And he can stick the car owner with the bill for towing, and a bill for parking too long. When people drive the wrong way out of an unspiked parking lot and don’t pay, the lot owner has no method of redress. In the case of people who leave their car too long in a lot, you can’t smash the windows because you have a remedy that’s effective and much less excessive. With spikes, you can make the case that the person is prevented from leaving without paying. The lot owner is essentially giving himself some method of redress, of keeping the car there, and I bet the law says that’s OK. Smashing windows when you could’ve called a tow truck at the car owner’s expense makes you, in the eyes of the law, an excessive, vengeful guy who could’ve used other more reasonable methods.
It may very well be legal, but my question is why?
Is there any other example of where a business owner can create a way to cause property damage to patrons who do not follow the rules of the establishment? Dine and dash, pump and dash, you have no other recourse but call the cops- why can parking lots dole out their own punishment?
I’d say probably because it’s very doable, it doesn’t cause thousands of dollars of damage, but just a few hundred, and most legislators feel it’s not a very unreasonable method, given the number of people who would leave without paying if they could. Most restaurants and gas stations, someone’s sitting there watching. Often there’s more than one person watching. So eating and dashing or pumping and dashing isn’t at epidemic proportions. At plenty of big parking lots, especially late at night, if there was a way of sneaking out the back, no one would ever pay. No one. So, you get spikes, and legislators figure, OK, sounds reasonable.
It’s only relevant if you are able to see a difference between me poking you in the eye with a sharp stick as opposed to warning you not to do it yourself.
Good points on that aspect. How about a business that sets up something to damage patrons for a mistake? I doubt there are stats on this, but I’m guessing the majority of these are accidents by honest patrons- surely there are not similar example of a business that punishes honest mistakes, even if one thinks the act is stupid?
Any fence, or gate, or turnstile can cause damage to your car if you don’t follow the rules. Try to sneak behind another car that is going through a moving gate? You’re likely to have it drop across your hood. Explain to me how this is different then back up spikes? If you were following the rules (which are plainly available for you to see) you wouldn’t have that problem either.
Your main complain seems to be that they are hard to see. That’s why there are big friggin signs telling you not to back up! Suppose it was a wall that sprung up behind your car instead of the spikes. If you backed up into it you’d have similar damage, but you can’t claim to not see a big orange wall. Would this be OK by you?
Huh? Yes, they do. They can record the license plate information with a camera. It’s very easy to do these days, and I’ve seen such systems in place. It’s probably cheaper than installing the spikes.
Given the situation in the parking lot, is it reasonable to threaten a customer with damage that is greater than the amount owed? The most I’ve ever paid for a parking fee has been about $50. Tires for my truck cost $100 each, so the parking lot owner is threatening $200 worth of property damage (two tires) for a $50 bill? Does he have the right to do that? His claim is limited to the actual parking fee, nothing more.
As for signs, wouldn’t that sign need to be also placed at the entrance of the parking lot so a driver could decide if he wants to risk his tires for a parking spot?
He’s likely to say “Hmmm. Looks like another of those danged high school debate team vans went and parked where they weren’t supposed to.” And then, with a amused grin, he removed the sign and the lid and put them back for the next clever coach to impress his/her team.
That would be my guess.
Yes. He has the right to do that. Why wouldn’t he? It’s his garage. He is not threatening to damage your car. He is warning you tht YOU will damage your car if you drive over the strip. Why would he be responsible for your damages if you disregarded the signs and drove over the strip? He didn’t make you do it. He actually warned you not to. The parking fee could be 2 dollars and your tires worth $2000, and that still wouldn’t make it his fault YOU drove over the strip.
Where’s the risk to your tires to get to the parking spot? The risk only exists if you drive the wrong way over the tire strip placed at the wrong exit.
My point exactly- when you back up, you look in your rear-view mirror and would see the wall, same as if you are backing up in traffic or a queue of some type, you can see other cars, people, walls, etc.
If you grab your dry cleaning and run without paying the ten dollar tab, and leave a wallet with 500 bucks on the counter, can the dry cleaners keep your 500 bucks legally?
Also, if someone is trying to park and dash, and they get the tire damage and get caught, would the cops call this even, or still make them pay the bill?
The business is not punishing an honest mistake. Driving over the spikes is the honest mistake in itself.
FWIW, there’s a set of such spikes in a (public, free) car park near here, preventing cars entering the wrong way. The only possible reason for them being there is that given by Phase42, to prevent a nasty head-on collision. At the location in question, exiting traffic is accelerating to join a major road, and a car incorrectly entering that way would also be going fairly fast. The warning to not drive in that way? Just a No Entry sign. Nothing else. Why should there be? If you’re that unobservant, you shouldn’t be behind the wheel.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. You are parking in someone’s private lot. You’re doing it of your own free will. You are not compelled in any way to enter that lot.
The owner of the lot makes it possible for you to leave in only the manner he or she prescribes. If you don’t, your car might get damaged. What’s illegal about that?