Is it legal for cops to sit in their car in the pitch black - no street lights or parking lights - and pull people over? One person told me they can and another person said they can’t. I just wonder if it isn’t different for every state.
That John Denver’s full of shit man!
I am not aware of any rule in any state prohibiting the practice you describe. I can say definitively that in Virginia, there is no law prohibiting the practice, nor does it appear to infringe on any state or federal constitutional rights.
What, exactly, do you think they’re doing wrong? Hiding too well?
That’s a pretty vague question but as long they have probably cause that a crime is being committed they probably can. I had to pay a speed ticket in Big Sandy, Montana because of a cop waiting in the dark. I’m not aware of any supreme court ruling that states that cops need a big neon sign that says “speed trap.”
Come let us go, I’ve a cask of amontillado.
Warning: the following is hearsay. I heard it from my wife, who reportedly heard it from her brother, who happens to be a police officer.
Anyhow, in this particular jurisdiction (in Missouri; not sure if this is a local thing or a state law or what) cops can hide behind “natural” objects like rocks, trees, hills, etc. They cannot hide behind “manmade” objects like fences, signs, buildings, etc.
It’s okay if they happen to be behind a sign just as you drive past and they shoot you with the radar gun, but they can’t just be parked there.
I realize this is not quite the same question that you asked, but the context of the conversation involved ways for her to avoid having to pay speeding tickets if the cop had done something that wasn’t strictly by the book, so I think he’d probably have also mentioned “they have to leave their running lights on” or something like that if that were the case.
I’m not sure what the principle is that’s at issue here. That the police can’t make themselevs inconspicuous in order to catch people breaking the law? That it’s not fair when you get caught if you thought you were getting away with it?
It varies from state to state. In Georgia, local police cannot use radar unless they are parked in such a way as to be clearly visible for at least 500 feet. This is to prevent local jurisdictions from setting up speed traps. However, state troopers (who are presumably above that sort of thing) are not subject to the 500’ restriction.
In your case, if it were in Georgia, and if it was a local cop (county or city), sounds like you might have an argument. You’ll have to go to the statutes in your state and look it up to see what rules (if any) apply.
In AL(abama), I think the same thing is true - city and county cars must have at least parking lights on, but the trooper I sped past the other night sitting in the median was completely dark and I didn’t see him until waaaay too late. He may have been asleep though.
As an aside, the municipality in which I live only has 7 police cars, so it’s fairly easy to count them as you see them, and know where they aren’t. And they’re always well lit.
I think that the OP was referring to the safety issues of cops with all their lights turned off so that they are not visible to any drivers, not just speeding drivers. I have personally seen cops either in the median or on the shoulder doing this, and IMHO it isn’t safe. I do believe some municipalities have laws against this. In fact, since its illegal for any motor vehicle to do this, it should also be illegal for the police. No matter what they try to make you think, all the rules of the road apply to them as well.
I just recently moved to Georgia and have noticed the same thing - the police/hwy patrol will park on the shoulder of a busy highway at night, without any lights at all. It always strikes me as extremely unsafe because you don’t see the car until you are right on top of it.
Also weird, I’ve seen them standing outside next to the car shooting the radar at oncoming traffic (while everyone is going about 70 in a 55 zone). No chance for him to get into the car and catch a speeder - and Georgia doesn’t have front plates so it would be difficult to call ahead to another patrol car (at night anyway, plus that section of highway doesn’t lend itself well to that strategy considering there are many exits in the vicinity that people could take - not as avoidance but just because that is what they intended). What are they doing - recalibrating? Seems a silly and dangerous way to do that. Looking for the really, really big fish?
I know the feeling. You don’t know until you’re on top of him. He’s banking on it.
It seems that everybody is pretty much thinking of this in terms of radar, rather that crack dealer terms, so here’s my take on radar…
Britsh Columbia recently instituted a photo radar system where-by vehicle mounted units (in minivans, for all you would-be tourists)are placed by the side of the road and click pictures of passing speeders. Now in the name of “fairness” (after all, radar is a deterent not a punishment ;)) a number of rules were put into place regarding where the radar vans could be placed. Amongst these rules were “not around blind corners” and “not at the bottom of hills”. While this made the program a little more “fair”, I noticed that it did something else… Cut down on the number of potential accidents.
Let’s face it, when we see a radar trap our first reflex is to brake - we’d all hate to pay a ticket. Well imagine if you are coming around a corner and suddenly, not 10 feet away, is a big old radar trap… Some (not I) brake so suddenly that they end up causing an accident - This happened frequently during the early days of photo radar, not because the vans were hidden, but because people wouln’t realize it was a radar van until they were right next to it… Saw it happen myself, once.
Anyways, same goes for hidden radar traps. If you wing past a sign or rock or whatever and out of your peripheral catch a mountie or smokey with a gun, the knee-jerk reaction to brake may kick in. With a visible radar trap, there is an element of deterence (again, the whole point) as well as an element of safety. Highway cops that hide or mask themselves are dangerous and uneffective. But it probably lets them eat their beignets in private…
Kylen
Powers106,
I’d guess that they’re taking a break from sitting in the car to get out and move around a bit without technically going ‘on break’. Since they’re using the radar gun they can claim to be monitoring traffic, but they take the chance to get out of the car for a little while.
Thinking about it a little longer, I think I know why. It’s not because they are taking a break, it’s because they have a dashboard mounted radar gun. If you pull over on the side of a one-way highway, you have to take the gun, turn it around and aim it at the traffic - I guess the most convenient way of doing this, besides twisting awkwardly in the drivers seat, it to get out of the car and point and shoot. I guess he is just adept at hopping back into the car and chasing the speeder.
kylen-
“beignets”??? Ooh la la!
Down here in Georgia, the cops just eat those good old-fashioned Kripy Kreme Donuts!
So how do I find out the statutes for my state?
My OP was in regard to a ticket I got Saturday night for failing to make a complete stop at a stop sign. I live in a little town of about 3000 (if that) and the cops are the biggest assholes around. The cop was sitting beside the baseball field in total darkness about 50 feet away from the stop sign. As soon as I made my turn he turned his headlights on and then as I went past him he turned on his flashing lights. He gave me a $52.00 ticket for coasting through a stop sign. I have never had a ticket before in my life and it kind of pisses me off that he didn’t just give me a warning or something! :mad:
Since he didn’t have his parking lights on I thought that I could contest the ticket by calling it entrapment. I don’t know what I’ll do yet… I’m still fuming.
That John Denver’s full of shit man!
I still don’t know the answer, but the obvious violation of public safety would be a dark and nearly invisible object sitting in the shoulder of a high speed freeway. What might happen if you had a blowout and had to make a B-line for the shoulder?
If you go to the site on the net where lawyers rest gleefully laughing at us, freeadvice.com there, most baffling of all, but the cops can even LIE to you to get you to confess. Oh pray for us.
Trust me on this. Get a traffic lawyer to take care of this for you, and fill him in on all of the details. It should cost you somewhere between $59 to $89, and you’ll get no points on your license. I had a similar ticket, but mine was even tougher to beat…It was broad daylight, I make a left at a right turn only coming out of shopping center onto a quiet street with one lane going each way. There were no cars anywhere on this stretch of street and the mere presense of the “right-turn only” sign was laughable. There was NO reason for it, whatsoever. Well as soon as I looked both ways and saw no traffic, I took the left and immediately noticed the police car strategically wedged between some bushes. He quickly pulled me over, and I quickly began to argue my case. I told him that the sign was ridiculous, that I was in a hurry and if I had heeded the sign, I would have had to go a mile down the street in order take a left (no u-turns) into a housing complex, turn around, and come back out. I didn’t seem to be garnering to much sympathy as he proceeded to write out the ticket. It was at this point that I respectfully told him that I didn’t have anything against him personally (he was doing his job afterall) but that the sign and the resulting ticket were “bullshit” and that not only is it a waste of time for motorists, but that this ticket would turn into a waste of time for the policeman himself and the court system in general. As I argued this I wondered if my lawyer, who had gotten me out of many speeding tickets, would be able to get me out of this one.
I brought the ticket to my lawyer, he charged me $69 and he somehow got it thrown out of court with no points and no court costs. I got off clean on what should have been a cut and dry case. I took a left turn at a right-turn only. The cop saw me do this in broad daylight. Yet somehow, my lawyer is able to get it thrown out of court. Gotta love it!
“Entrapment” occurs when the cops entice you into committing a crime and then charge you with it.
Frankly, this doesn’t sound like entrapment.
I don’t want to moralize here… but… look here, the law is that you have to come to a complete stop. You broke that law. The consequence of breaking that law is the possibility of getting caught, and incurring a fine.
That’s what happened. Why are you so upset?
Referring to the OP about the running (parking) lights being on…
When I was in the AirForce, the SP’s (security police) would park somewhere, usually out in the open and not behind anything and clock drivers on base. At night, they would do the same thing, but usually would have the parking lights on. One night, after a particularly long shift, I was pulled over for doing 50 in a 45. The SP was in a Bronco on the side of the road, but didn’t have any lights on. It was also slightly raining (which, I think had something to do with the stealth not working on my truck - never had a ticket or clocked for a ticket until then - reference to the B-2s) which made the shale roads a bit slippery. I commented to the cop about not having his lights on. He told me that as long as there is something preventing a vehicle from hitting him, i.e., curb, he wasn’t required to have lights on. Which, as I was thinking back to other cops I had seen on base, was true. No curb = lights on. Curb = lights off. Just an intersting thing… so I would imagine if civillian authorities were as safety concerned as the military, they would abide by these common sense guidlines.