It’s not cheap at twice the price if it just gets added to our skyrocketing deficit. I agree we cannot pull out now. However, I want Bush to pay for it, and not put it on our credit card. If this is such a crucial duty of the American people, maybe we had better postpone or rescind the tax cuts he gave to the richest 1% to defray some of this cost.
Besides, I am of the opinion that the costs will spirial even further without international help. Bush is already asking for twice what he asked for at first. Has the administration shown any inclination that it really knows what the costs will end up being?
They don’t have a clue, and they’ve underestimated what is necessary almost every step of the way.
Hypocrites, huh? Well, fuck you. How many brutal tyrants are in the world right now? How many are not being invaded? (Hint: lots.) How long did Bush let people suffer and starve in Liberia before an extremely limited force was sent? (Hint: a brutally long period of time.)
It is such bullshit to put even a part of this in humanitarian terms.
Do you know how many countries are controlled by brutal tyrants? I guess you support invasions into all of them? Or are you the hypocrite?
I’ve got news for you…you can’t insult other countries and expect them to help you out when things arent going the way you want any more.
I hope we get the help we desperately need. I feel for the soldiers in our two wars that are dying every day as the chickenhawk Rumsfeld tries to prove his theories on new warfare(on the cheap) with the blood of our Armed Forces. I want to do things right.
That’s why Bush needs to give up his precious monopoly over Iraq control and share of profits. He needs to go to the U.N., hat in hand, and contritely apologize and give up whatever he needs to to get help. He is never going to get help otherwise, and more of our soldiers and innocent Iraqis will suffer and die every day while Bush fundraises and vacations.
Yeah, I thought it was hilarious how Bush basically forgave “our friends” (France and Germany) for disagreeing with him and how he gave them this golden opportunity to … agree with him now.
Cowboy. He’s making our country look like a pack of arrogant cowboys.
“I know you didn’t want us to be here, but that doesn’t matter. It is now your duty to give us your money and your troops and we’ll tell them what to do and decide where the money goes, okay. Good, now shut up and start agreeing.”
The president probably just forgot to mention this picky detail last night. Rather than dotting I’s and crossing t’s, Bush is more into the “big picture” style of leadership. :dubious:
21 billion now for reconstruction is a joke. A very bad joke, at that.
We’re in it up to our necks, and what we need now is a leader who will actually lead - you know, level with us about how much it will cost, pick the most competent people on the planet to get the job done, and then get it done.
Instead, we’ve got the Shrub.
Of course, a leader is what we needed after 9/11 too. Afghan reconstruction ain’t going too well either. And in case you missed it, a piece of this pie is going there, to ratchet up the reconstruction of that country.
Of course, we should’ve at least finished that job first. But that would’ve meant actually thinking about what we’re doing to the extent of setting goals and accomplishing them within the limits of our resources and the time we have before our enemies can take advantage of our dilatoriness (if that’s a word) and persuade the people (of Afghanistan and now Iraq) to go over to their side.
Sigh. I would give, oh I don’t know, something substantial, just to have a real leader with a brain and a heart in the White House. Just for as long as it takes to clean up this mess.
Makes me laugh… Bush thinks we are helping quell the problems in the Middle East? They don’t look very quelled to me.
Oh, and the other thing: terrorists in Iraq? Since when is someone defending their country from foreign invaders considered terrorism? The US is an illegally occupying force in Iraq, with neither a UN mandate or even a real plan.
Why the hell doesn’t someone in the American public wake up to this??
The United States and Great Britain are recognized as the legitimate authorities in Iraq, by UNSCR 1483. It is endlessly amusing that you UN-fanboys ignore that little fact, as if to show that you are all rah!rah! for the UN, unless it isn’t in your interests to do so. ‘Hypocricy’ comes to mind.
Before the 2000 election I was posting “Vote Republican … lose all your money.”
Boy, was I right. Looks like I’ll be able to make the same point in the 2004 election. Sadly, the media is so deep in Dubya’s lap that even in 2004 I doubt it’ll help.
Sheeple or people. The 2004 election will show which one the American people are. Sadly, the smart money is on “sheeple.”
Umm, if I’m not mistaken, UNSCR 1483 came after we took over the sovereign nation formerly known as Iraq. It’s constitutes particularly shameless kissing of American ass by the UN and is a clear contradiction of their earlier opposition to the invasion.
Nope, the UN is not immune to my scorn either, but at least they do occasionally try to stand up to the global bullies.
Enjoy the irony of the President who skipped out on his remaining National Guard duty extending the terms of others in the National Guard and the Reserves to serve in Iraq. Maybe if they come serve on his re-election campaign (and their daddy is the Texas governor) they don’t have to serve their country as well?
And for our resident “pulling stuff out of my ass and calling it facts” military expert:
So, if you don’t know what the hell your talking about, you may want to stick with pointless personal insult based drive-bys. :rolleyes:
But how could have poor little George known that this would cost so much in American lives and money? Well, maybe read the damn intelligence reports beings sent to him, rather then using Cheney to cook up a bunch bogus WMD and Al Queda ties claims:
Once again the chickenhawks only listened to reports they liked, and did not distract them from their idiotic “pie-in-the-sky” promises regarding Iraq and Afganistatan.
Experts:
Chickenhawks:
Gee, guess who was right, again.
Reactions “lukewarm” to latest “come bail my ass out” speech by Bush.
In other words, the ends justified the means. :rolleyes:
According to Iraq Body Count the civilian deaths stand at a minimum figure of 6118 which doesn’t include all those left maimed and orphaned.
I guess the question is “How many people get to be sacrified for our version of humanitarianism?” Who decideds what an "acceptable amount’ is? It all sounds suspiciously like the rationale of some villianous corporate bean counter who claims that such and such and amount of deaths is balanced by the bottom line.
The people killed, many of which were children, were unable to make conformed consent to take the risk.
There’s a name for that kind of high-handed unilateral decision making: Imperialism. And there is a name for one-sided utilitarian thinking that ruthlessly applies the concept of “the greatest good for the greatest number”: Fascism. You can see how the very idea is almost, by definition a tyranny.
Who gets to decide if having that sort of casual attitude towards slaughter, for the “greater good” or not, is actually worse than the problem you are trying to solve?
I think for the Iraqi dead the solution was worse than the problem. And we didn’t have the right to make that decision for them.
Homeland Security: $41.3b
Health and Human Services, including $27.7b for NIH: $66.2b
Education including $29.5b for K-12 education: $53.1b
State Dept and foreign aid: $27.4b
Highway and road construction: $29.3b
Bush’s proposed tax cuts: $107.3b
Something’s gotta give, George. One item really sticks out there, too, doesn’t it? Or do you propose to pass the bill on to our children and grandchildren instead?
Isn’t that like your cable company giving you a service you never wanted, needed or asked for, ignoring your pleas to remove it, and charging you up the ying-yang for it?
Okay, so am I the only one who’s thinking, “Hrm. Huge spending bill. Unpopular, but politically dangerous not to back at the moment. Let’s see how many other ‘little’ projects get suddenly piggybacked onto this one!”?