If Not Bush, Then Who Is To Blame?

This post is directed more toward the Bush supporters. Clearly the war in Iraq was justified at the time under at what most kindly can be said to be exagerrated claims of WMDs and ties to Al Queda, and probably more accurately can be described as patently wrong information. Also, the Administration certainly seemed to have a much rosier picture of how the peace would be won, if you will. This clear miscalculation has proved to be extremely costly in terms of lives and money.

Personally, I am holding Bush accountable and that is why he will not get my vote. I want to know whom those who support bUsh would hold accountable and what they think should be done. George Tenatn is gone, is that enough? Bill O’Reilly has said that he thinks Donald Rumsfeld shold be the guy to go, blaming him for basically not filtering the right information to Bush.

There needs to be accountability. Where should it go?

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could hold one person accountable for all of the problems in Iraq (and for that matter in the rest of the world; and the economy and the weather, too). If you can convince me that everything is completely Bush’s fault, I’ll vote against him.

If he is only 99% responsible, will you stick by him? How about 85%? Will you still vote for him as long as some small part of this mess can be blamed on someone else?

What if you were convinced that he was so ignorant/incompetent/lazy/greedy that he didn’t bother to question the advisors that told him the war on Iraq was necessary? As President of the United States, it was his duty to gather facts in a prudent fashion - from informed advisors - before he made the choice to send our troops into this war. Of course the “problems in Iraq” are not 100% his fault, but that doesn’t mean he or his adminstration can’t be held accountable for the chaos and death that have resulted from his decisions.

WMD issues aside, the Iraq war was still the correct strategic choice. The Middle East is a breeding ground for terrorists. The only way to ‘win’ is to wade into the swamp and drain it. The Kerry strategy is basically to get a better screen door.

In my opinion, one of the reasons the global jihadists are doing what they are doing is because they have become convinced that they can win. They believe that the west has become decadent and fractured from within. They believe that they can win because they can break our will to fight. And why do they think that? For good reason. Because for two decades the U.S. has responded to increasingly violent and brazen attacks with constant retreat.

Bin Laden has a favorite saying: “People want to follow the strong horse.” As long as wide swaths of people in the Middle East see Bin Laden as a strong horse, someone who is taking it to the man, he is going to get a flood of recruits. The United States needed to flex a little muscle in the region and start changing minds. When the average Middle Easterner sees Bin Laden as a pain in the ass who is simply stirring up trouble their backyard, funding to his organization will slow and it will be harder to get recruits. In the meantime, they have to learn that going toe to toe with the U.S. military means a rapid death and little damage to the U.S, military.

That’s another good reason. A third is that occupying Iraq gives the U.S. leverage over other nations in the region. A good example of this payoff is Syria’s agreement to withdraw from Lebanon. A good reason for that decision is the presence of a couple of armored divisions next door.

Then there’s democratic reform. Iraq was a good choice for this experiment. Among Middle Eastern countries, it has one of the more educated and sophisticated populations. The Kurds have had a functioning democracy for a long time. The Shia have shown every desire for democracy, as have many Sunnis. In fact, the only ones who don’t really want one are the ex-regime dead-enders, jihadists, and foreign fighters making up the insurgency.

A Democratic Iraq will give hope to the Middle East. It will act as a propaganda tool, encouraging reform in other countries. A prosperous, free Iraq will be a stabilizing influence, an example of how democracy can work in the Middle East.

Then there’s the legal justification. Iraq was unique in that it was the only country that the U.S. had a legal justification to attack. Technically, the U.S. and Iraq were still at war, under a condition of cease-fire. Plus, Iraq was in violation on several U.N. resolutions, and a threat from the U.N. that failure to meet them would lead to serious consequences. Saddam was also brutalizing his own people and paying terrorists in the Palestinian territories. He was also threatening his neighbors, and had attacked two of them in the recent past. So there was a moral and legal case for removing him.

You can not beat terrorists by playing defense. That forces you to be right 100% of the time, and they only have to get lucky once. You need to solve the problem. Bush is trying to solve the problem. Going into Iraq is more like going into North Africa to take out Hitler. It’s a single, strategic battle in a much larger war. It was a smart, bold strategy that may yet work.

So who is to blame? Well, certainly the intelligence community failed. Who is to blame for that? The roots of that failure go all the way back to the Church comission hearings and the repeated gutting of the CIA’s capability by a hostile Congress. The CIA was no longer able to recruit people with ‘dirty hands’, which made it impossible to put human assets in terrorist organizations and the Iraq government. The CIA was under constant threats of funding cuts, and took tremendous amounts of criticism from the left in the 1970’s and the 1980’s.

So the intelligence community screwed up. It needs fixing. The occupation has been riddled with mistakes, but let’s make something clear - this constant criticism of Bush going into Iraq ‘without a plan’ is just not true. There was a plan. There were many plans. The military and civilian planners spent huge efforts on the really important stuff. Putting out the expected oil field fires, being attacked with WMD, Dams being destroyed and flooding huge swaths of land. Immense effort was put into preparing for the expected famines as food distribution lines were cut. Does anyone remember early in the war how all the special logistics were set up to ship food into cities as they were being occupied? Remember the work done in the damaged shipyards so cargo ships could get in with supplies for the population? The lines of Iraqis getting water off of military trucks?

There was a plan, and it led to an invasion that went remarkably well, and an aftermath that prevented widespread suffering.

But no plan is perfect. I have argued many times that governments can’t run a complex economy, nor plan for every possible situation in the future. They just can’t, and that applies to occupations as well. That’s why you need to get the population up and working again and let them run their own country. I knew the occupation would be a bit of a balls-up - it’s inevitable. But it’s a necessary evil. It’s just one of the hard things you have to muddle through when you are at war, just as the U.S. had to occupy countries in WWII.

Did this happen in that “Third World” Bush was talking about?

You don’t remember the prelude to war, the predictions of hundreds of thousands starving to death? The U.N. mobilizing emergency food and water rations for what everyone worried would be a humanitarian crisis? That never happened. Part of the reason was because the war ended so quickly, but part was because the U.S. military had a PLAN to move food and water rapidly into populated areas to prevent a famine.

I imagine from the perspective of a planner before the war, with the panoply of potential disasters facing him, the possibility of looting after a successful war was pretty low on the importance scale.

In hindsight, it looks like a big mistake. Hindsight is 20/20.

Oh that’s really brightened up my morning, priceless.

Do you have a cite for where the UN declared this violation and thus the triggering of the serious consequences? The UN resolution that authorised invasion as the ‘serious consequence’? I remember Tony Blair saying he was going to get one after he was advised that the war would be illegal without it, but I must have missed it. Of course then, the legal advice ‘changed’ and now they won’t show it to us…

**Speeches accompanying the signing of resolution 1441 from UNSC members**

*pdf file

Furthermore, under Resolution 1441, the UN Security Council ‘remains seized of the matter’. That is, it is explicitly not delegated to any member state to decide whether 1441 has been violated, but it is up to the Security Council to make any further decision.

You were saying, Sam?

SS: *In my opinion, one of the reasons the global jihadists are doing what they are doing is because they have become convinced that they can win. They believe that the west has become decadent and fractured from within. They believe that they can win because they can break our will to fight. And why do they think that? For good reason. Because for two decades the U.S. has responded to increasingly violent and brazen attacks with constant retreat.

Bin Laden has a favorite saying: “People want to follow the strong horse.” As long as wide swaths of people in the Middle East see Bin Laden as a strong horse, someone who is taking it to the man, he is going to get a flood of recruits. The United States needed to flex a little muscle in the region and start changing minds. When the average Middle Easterner sees Bin Laden as a pain in the ass who is simply stirring up trouble their backyard, funding to his organization will slow and it will be harder to get recruits.*

Sam, do you have proof for any of these wishful opinions of yours? Because they seem a lot less probable than the contrary hypothesis—namely, that invading a country that is posing no threat to you and killing thousands of their innocent civilians will in fact create more hostility towards you and amass more recruits for your enemies.

You seem to have this weird, almost “Orientalist” view of a vast mass of undifferentiated Middle Eastern Muslims who are mindlessly cringing before power, whose minds we can “change” just by “flexing a little muscle”. As though they don’t have genuine—and very diverse—principles, opinions, preferences, and goals of their own.

kniz, perhaps you could send the President a new placcard for his desk. It could say something like, “the buck stops somewhere down there”. From my perspective, even if it isn’t “everything is completely Bush’s fault”, he should be held accountable.

Sam Stone’s assertion that the only culpability belongs to those in the 70s and 80s that suggested that US government operatives shouldn’t have “dirty hands” is really scary.

Sam makes enough valid points that the position seems reasonable, but with a few major exceptions. The first major problem I have with this perspective is that the coalition showing force in the Middle East wasn’t broader. Now the jihadists can focus their energy directly at the US/UK. If the actions were conducted under the UN, it would be much more difficult for the jihadists to rally recruits. It is one thing to fight the “yankee imperialists”, something different entirely to fight the “rest of the world”. George Bush just painted a big target on the US. And then claims we are safer.

The second major problem with this perspective is it only holds together if Iraq is able to build a democracy. Sam appears to retain his optimism here. I have always been skeptical, and frankly, that skepticism continues to increase. And I sure hope my skepticism is misplaced. Facts on the ground suggest otherwise.

Sam’s paragraph on the legal justification is simply stunning. Others have taken him to task, and I don’t wish to pile on, but there is one statement I just can’t let go by:

Mostly true, and it would have been completely true with the modifier that it was the US (and others) under UN authority. Who violated that cease-fire agreement, and under what authority or justification did they do so?

I propose a much better way to spread democracy. How about we support it in corrupt regimes we are helping to prop up like Saudi Arabia? Do we really need to invade countries to spread democracy? Is that even an effective way to do so?

And, how successful will we be in spreading democracy when that doesn’t really seem to be our main goal? I’ve been saying from the beginning of the Iraq debacle that it is very hard to spread democracy as an ancillary benefit. It is hard enough to do when that is your primary overarching goal. When you have other goals, some more self-interested, it beomes nearly impossible.

There is a difference between blame and rseponsibility. One can be responsible even when one is not to blame.
Whether or not things are Bush’s “fault” they are his repsonsiblity. Reference Mr. Reagn’s handling of the arms for hostages debacle. He accepted teh responsibility of the actions of his underlings even though he said he had no knowedge of these actions. Mr. Reagan understood about personal responsibility. Mr. Bush has yet to demonstrate such acceptance of his responsibility.
Every action of the executive branch is GWB’s resposibility. That’s what being the PotUSA means.

Well, I am sure that there was some concerns about this possibility (although I feel like you may be overplaying the extent of them). However, this only illustrates another reason why your attitude concerning wars of choice like invading Iraq is so wrong-headed. You may feel vindicated that this scenario did not come to pass but the fact is that the naysayers really only have to be right on one major thing while you have to be right on just about everything. Unfortunately, it appears that you weren’t.

If you are speaking about calling Bush accountable for getting us into this war, then I will grant your claim. I personally think it goes much farther than that. Sam is correct that Iraq was techniguely in violation of the cease fire. No matter how you look at it, the UN had cited Iraq for being in violation 16 times, before Bush went there and tried one more time. It seemed obvious to me that the UN was going to flub around and eventually pass an 18th and so on and so on.

We now know one of the reasons the UN was not going to act against Iraq. Some of the members of the Security Council had a huge stake in maintaining the status quo. I heard that just one player received 71 million barrels of oil, which even at the lowest price in the last 15 years is a lot of pocket change. The other problem is the UN won’t do diddly squat even in cases where there aren’t such under the table transactions.

Bush has never claimed this, so I take complete responsibility for it. Kerry says we should have waited for the inspectors to finish their job. After winning the war against the Iraqi forces, it has taken over a year to get the answer about the WMDs. This was done with a lot less resistance than Saddam was ever going to allow. It has been stated by those against our policies (the French) that the inspectors would have never gotten in if our troops hadn’t been sent to the region. So what I want to know is how long were we supposed to keep them there in the heat, doing nothing but being a threat? Would the other nations have been comfortable with so many of our troops hanging around in the area? Would we have wanted to pay for them standing around while the inspectors tried to get the answers that we now have?

No matter how you cut it what Kerry is talking about is that he thinks we needed to get France on our side. It seems fairly obvious that we would have needed to give Chirac a whole lot of concessions to get France to join our coalition. So now Kerry says the answer is again to go to France for assistance. Just how much is that going to cost; in money, prestige and principle?

I’m not saying this is all Chirac’s fault, as it isn’t all Saddam’s fault or Bush’s or even OBL’s. Saying it is one person’s fault is too simplistic and in this particular case there is a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on.

I still feel like I am getting partial answers at best to my question. Sam Stone gives a reaosned defense of the invasion which I respectfully disagree with. However, glosses over the post-war mess. The mess in “winning the peace” is not trivial. Iunderstand hindsight is 20/20, but there must be some accountability for the far-to-rosy picture that was presented.

Well, I would submit that the reason it has taken this long is that they were desperately trying to get a different result…trying to turn up anything. I think we knew within weeks to a few months with a high degree of probability that there were no significant stocks of WMD in Iraq. [And, considering how we acting in terms of making no great effort to secure potential WMD sites, I would argue that the Administration seemed to be quite unconcerned about the possibility of significant stocks of WMD that might get into the hands of terrorists!]

And, to repost what I just posted in another thread, the fact is that the inspections had already turned up a very important result, namely that the U.S. intelligence seemed to be based on fairytales rather than fact. That may be the real reason why it was necessary to cut inspections off and invade. Here, from that February 21st, 2002 CBS story on the subject:

Well, look, I don’t doubt that it was not cheap to keep our troops in that region. But, I think that expense and the human cost pales in comparison to that for invading Iraq. On March 7th (12 days before the start of the war), Hans Blix said that he was envisioning a matter of months, not years (or weeks). We are now at over a year and a half of large scale U.S. troop presence in Iraq…And, these folks are not just sitting there in the heat. They are being killed on a daily basis. You do the math.

Look back and remember, who made the accusations and pushed for the war? Who tried to get allies involved and blew them off when they hesitated? Who gave the order to attack? Who was in charge? Look at the man who made those decisions. That is the man you blame.

France wanted to save “using force” as a last resort, and felt that more things could be done, on the diplomacy side of things. [sarcasm type=“thick”]Yeah, we couldn’t have afforded to do that.[/sarcasm]

Principle? I know it’s hard to swallow, but we need to come to the realization that the Iraq situation would be much better off, if France and Germany were there with us. IMO, we need their help, if we’re going to actually pull this whole ordeal off successfully. Bush, OTOH, thinks we’re doing a perfectly fine job by ourselves, and we don’t need anymore help. (So help me God, if someone mentions Poland right now… :mad: )

As for the cost, money-wise: you don’t seriously think that it would cost us more money, if France and Germany were to help out with Iraq, do you?
LilShieste

I want to add, the mention of Reagan taking respnisiblilty for the arms for hostages was an excellent example, as was Harry Truman’s “the buck stops here”. I bet if things had gone well, Bush would be right there to take the credit. The sea going equivalent is, if something goes horribly wrong on a ship, the captain is held accountable. He can not dump it on the new recruit down in the engine room, or anyone else. If a battle is lost, the general has to answer, not some GI in a foxhole. Accept the credit, accept the blame.