When I drive during rush hour, I’m going the same speed as everyone else. If a vehicle (or driver, for that matter) can’t keep up with the flow of traffic, it has no buisness being on the road. Bikes don’t get a special exemption from this: you want to use the road, you have to show the same courtesy expected from everyone else, and legal or not, driving half the speed limit is simply rude.
To be blunt, because there are more of us. Don’t pretend like I’m the one here arguing for special treatment. One bicyclist can hold up a dozen drivers. What makes him so special, that he gets to decide to add an extra ten minutes to everyone’s commute?
Tell you what, I’ll start voting for every bill that comes along asking for more bike lanes, and you stop riding in the middle of the street. Fair?
I always take the full lane when I need to while riding. Especially in this area, lots of windy, hilly, very narrow roads. The traffic is light on them, but there is traffic on them. And if I just worked my ass off to climb that hill, you can bet your sweet ass I am going to enjoy going down it as fast as I can. That might not be as fast as the cars behind me can go, but that’s just too bad. I have as much right to that road as they do, and I have a right to ride on it in safety.
Cyclists riding doubled up or in packs like that is one of my biggest pet peeves. I don’t blow my horn, but I do make it a point to shout “Share the road!” out my window.
I pay taxes in my country, state, county and city which means I pay for to construction and upkeep of the roads anywhere I ride my bike. Whenever I ride, I am courteous to drivers, but when I need space on the road, for example, when riding down steep, narrow roads, I use the whole lane. I have been to traffic school a few times(I had to go a couple times as a kid, once for riding without a light at night and once for blowing a stop sign) and officers have told me that, not only is that legal, it is the right thing to do. End of argument.
Well, first, I will repeat that under normal circumstances, I am extremely careful to be considerate of bicycle riders. I am NOT one of those who will pass a single biker with inches to spare. I will happily move left to give a single rider, or a group of single-file riders, ample room.
Your other point: This was at noontime, bright sunshine, on a road that is pretty new and has no potholes, snow, piles of dirt, or any other kind of possible obstruction. As I’ve said repeatedly: NO good reason whatsoever for those dipsticks to be riding side-by-side. Oh, one other thing that I left out: I encountered these numbnuts just after having come over a rise in the road. The rise was sufficient that, at the legal speed limit of 40mph, had they been just on the downward side as I came over it, it is likely that I would not have seen them in time to avoid a collision. I’ll just keep saying this: those dunderheads were being EXTREMELY unsafe, rude, and inconsiderate for no damned good reason!
I never pass cars waiting at the light. I never ride two abreast, and I never ride in groups so large that cars have trouble passing the entire group. I never ride on crowded 2-lane highways. Even on wider roads, I try not to ride when the traffic is so heavy that cars have trouble merging left to pass me. I always use multiple headlights and taillights at night. I obey all stop signs and traffic lights, and I always use hand signals when turning. That’s a lot more courtesy than I get from car drivers in return.
But I draw the line at taking the lane. It’s my life on the line. I’ll do what I deem necessary to protect my life, within the rule of law.
This is a completely different situation than what I’m ranting about. On a narrow road, or a road with potholes or other obstructions on the right side, I really have no problem if a single rider is obstructing traffic. As you say, such a rider is not doing so out of inconsideration, the rider is being safe and reasonable. And I will do my best in such a situation to give that rider a break, to slow down and stay behind him until it is safe to pass.
I tried that once. As I mentioned, this riding side-by-side thing has happened to me more than once. The previous times were on a winding, narrow two-lane road where it was even MORE unsafe for the assholes to be riding double. The first time I encountered them, I just slowed and passed when safe, no horn or anything. The second time (yes, the same two morons), I rolled down the passenger window and shouted as I passed, “Share the road works both ways!” As I looked in my rearview mirror, I saw expressions on their faces like I was just nuts.
Most bicycle riders are good, considerate people. But I have now encountered four that are total assholes and give a bad name to all the rest.
OK, I wasn’t there, you were. And I still don’t know the laws of your state. It’s very possible that they were riding in an illegal and/or dangerous manner. I’m just saying that simply blocking one lane is not in itself dangerous or illegal.
“Taking the lane” means riding far enough into the lane that there’s not enough room left to share with a car. I usually ride 3 or 4 ft from the curb, right around where the right tires of cars would pass.
Precisely. Those extra few seconds aren’t going to kill the driver waiting for me to get to a safer, wider part of the road, but it very well could kill me.
And to clarify my own post : Cyclists riding doubled up or in packs* like that * is one of my biggest pet peeves. I don’t blow my horn, but I do make it a point to shout “Share the road!” out my window.
“like that” refers to your OP Roadfood. And yes, I realize you were not complaining about riders taking the lane for safety, but a few others in this thread were.
Oh, and just because they were all geared up doesn’t mean they were not casual cyclists. They’re probably just Freds. Or assholes. Take your pick.
But yea, most cyclists, and actually most drivers in this area as well (well, at least when it comes to cyclists on the road) are usually pretty well-behaved and considerate. Shame the pricks have to ruin that overall impression.
3 or 4 feet? Speaking as a semi-ex-cyclist, what do you need that much room for, aside from ensuring that cars build up behind you and get annoyed? I was typically fine within 1-2 feet away from the curb.
There are some places on Roadways where riding 1-2 feet from the curb means that a car passes you with about 6 inches to spare, whereas riding 3-4 feet from the curb means the car waits behind you until there is a safe place to pass.
Taking the lane just involves taking enough of it that passing cars have to hit you or go around you properly, and can’t just maintain their line and shave past you.
Once you’re taking a lane, it doesn’t really matter whether you’re taking it with one person or three side by side. When I’m riding with a small bunch, we’re usually single file, but if we decide to take the lane, we’ll take it and often go two or three abreast because we’re not going to block the lane any more or less by doing so, and we’re more visible
You say that they had “no cause”, “none”.
Perhaps. Or perhaps from their perspective they did.
If they had been riding single file there would, you say, have been “no trouble”, “no obstruction” and “no danger to them or cars”.
There would have been no trouble because you would have just slipped on by them. Probably. Unless you or they made a mistake and swerved a bit. Then you’d have been fine and they’d have been dead. This fact tends to give cyclists a different perspective to motorists.
There would have been no obstruction because you would’ve squeezed past in their lane. Which may or may not have had enough room. I know you say there would have been enough room. Pardon me if I don’t necessarily accept what you say. My perspective on the issue is coloured by my experience of what I consider enough room and what many motorists consider enough room. Funnily enough, the different views tend to correlate to the consequences of what happens if something goes wrong.
There would have been no danger to the cyclists. You say. See above. There is never any real danger to cars from cyclists. That’s part of the problem. See above.
Cars slowing down and pulling left to make sure they don’t hit me? Explain to me again why, as a cyclist, this is bad from a safety perspective? I’m not seeing it.
Me, Me, Me, it’s all about Me. They’re doing it to piss Me off. I’m the centre of the universe, I perceive people’s motivations are based on how their actions will affect Me. If someone does something I don’t like they’re eeeevil. If their actions negatively affect Me, they have no damned reason.
The basic problem is that cars take up a lot of room and slow the traffic down a lot, particularly in rush hour. But when you’re driving a car, you naturally don’t say: “I wish these fucking car drivers would get off the road” because, well, you are one. It just never occurs to you.
This is something that most commuter cyclists notice, get frustrated by and then by the time they’ve been riding for a long while like me, accept with a certain resignation. It ain’t going to change.
Every morning when I commute through the city cars are held up by each other. There are long queues of cars each taking up enough room for four bikes waiting to get through lights. There are cars slowing to turn off into carparks and holding up lines of cars behind them. There are parked cars in areas that could be used as lanes but are used for parking because cars are so large and awkward that a lot of space has to be dedicated to putting them somewhere when you’re not using them. Driving cars is legal, sure, but using one when you don’t have to (which is much of the time, of course, there are buses, there are motorbikes etc), holding everyone up, is simply rude (;)).
But car drivers just don’t notice. Pointing this sort of thing out is like asking a fish whether the viscosity of the water in which they are immersed annoys them. The problem, according to car drivers (and I’m one, by the way) is cyclists, or pedestrians, or traffic lights or the lack of big enough roads. It’s never cars.
So as I’m on my morning ride, every now and again, the driver of a car who has driven with no increase in blood pressure at 20 mph down a road signed for 40 because it is clogged up with cars will get held up for, like, 5 seconds by me and go off his fucking rocker. I mostly manage not to get too annoyed about it these days.
Tee hee. I’d never heard this term before. True story: there’s this guy who rides with my training bunch every now and again. In fact, only when he’s bought a new titanium allen key or carbon fibre wheel nut or whatever and wants to bore us shitless talking about how expensive it was. He can’t keep up because he can’t ride to save himself, and we (being basically nice people) have to slow down not to leave him behind. Then we don’t see him again for another few months till he’s bought his next doohickey. Sad really.
The cyclist knows that 100 feet up the road, there’s a spot that doesn’t drain and gathers mud. He knows that right ahead the city put in storm drains that run parallel to the road. He knows about that pothole coming up that popped his tire and dented his rim. He knows that that’s a point where cars like to overtake, and then make right-hand-turns directly in front of him. He knows about that blind spot up ahead because the last time he was out riding, a car tried to overtake him crossing the double line, and had to slam on his brakes and swerve back at him to avoid a head-on collision.
There are some cyclists who are in la la land on the bike, taking a lane in appropriately. There are some cyclists who take that lane and know exactly what they’re doing. There aren’t cyclists who do it to piss people off, and if there are, they don’t last for very long.
Is this person speeding by doing 40mph? Or, is this the average speed on this road? If it is the average speed, can you keep up to that speed on your bike? If not why are you on that road in the first place? Yes, I know you may have the legal right to be there, but it doesn’t mean you have to be.
I’ve always thought that bicycles should only be allowed on residential streets with posted speeds of 30mph (50km) or less, or on roads with an actual bicycle lane. Otherwise they pose a danger to themselves, and worse, a danger to others.
Oh, that’s wonderful that you’ve always thought that. I’ve always thought there should be designated times during the day when cars aren’t allowed on the roads at all. That would be nice, too.
The cyclists responding here are correct. Slower vehicles do have a right to use the road, despite baseless claims like Miller’s that they simply “have no business being there”. And that means they have a right to take the (rightmost) lane of traffic if they need it, even if that obliges faster vehicles to slow down and wait until it’s possible to pass them.
It’s just the same as when a farm vehicle or some other slow machine uses the road. If they’re taking up so much room that you can’t get past them in the same lane, you simply have to slow down behind them and wait till you can pass them.
Sure, it’s nice when a bicycle can fit entirely onto the road shoulder or in the edge of the lane so that you can get by them safely without changing lanes or slowing down. (And when it’s possible to do so safely, cyclists should keep far to the right in order to permit this.) However, that’s not always possible, and cyclists have to use their judgement about when to take the lane. And you have to respect their decision and accomodate their presence there, just as you would for any other slow vehicle.
On the other hand, it is illegal in many places for cyclists to ride side-by-side (not “tandem”, which confusingly implies a tandem bike or bicycle-built-for-two). And if that’s the case in the OP’s location, then s/he has a right to complain about the cyclists who were riding illegally.
And cyclists who run stop signs or red lights or otherwise violate traffic laws are indeed annoying, selfish, inconsiderate jerks. Especially when it results in a driver’s having to pass the same cyclist over and over again because the inconsiderate jerk keeps blowing past you when you’re stopped.
Yes and it would be nice if people weren’t assholes and forced themselves onto a road where they can’t keep up with traffic and by doing so inconvenience and endanger others for their own convenience.
A lot of American drivers seem to have this bizarre notion that the average speed of traffic ought to be regarded as the minimum speed. It’s simply not justified by any traffic laws in any jurisdiction I’ve ever encountered.
Most vehicles on any given road will be going the average speed or higher, true. But that doesn’t mean that any vehicle significantly slower than that speed doesn’t belong on that road. (Unless, of course, the road has a posted minimum speed that’s faster than what the slow vehicle can sustain.)
On almost every road, occasionally you will encounter a vehicle in front of you going significantly slower than the average speed. That doesn’t mean that that vehicle doesn’t belong there. It just means that you have to SLOW DOWN and WAIT to be able to pass it.
Why this common-sense requirement is so frequently regarded as an intolerably frustrating violation of a driver’s God-given rights, if not an infuriating destroyer of the whole worth of the automotive experience, I will never understand. You do not have any kind of guaranteed prerogative to drive at your preferred speed without ever slowing down. When you do occasionally have to slow down, that doesn’t necessarily mean that somebody else must have been doing something wrong or using a road where they didn’t belong.
If you really feel that bikes ought to be legally restricted to roads with posted speed limits of 30 mph or less and to designated bike paths or lanes, feel free to petition your legislature to enact such a law. In the meantime, I suggest confining your driving to limited-access highways. Bicycles aren’t allowed on those, and I will happily joining you in condemning any cyclist who attempts to ride on one.
Y’know, you’d’ve realized if you stopped to read the OP that this thread isn’t about you or cyclists like you, right?
What is it about most of you cyclists that you knee-jerk every time a driver complains about cyclists doing something unsafe? (speaking as a part-time bike commuter)