Actually, they are catering to each other. The cyclist, like all slower vehicles, is catering to the convenience of the faster vehicles by keeping to the right and not using the full width of the road (except when there’s only the one lane and the cyclist needs to “take the lane” for safety). In return, the faster vehicles cater to slower vehicles by being aware of their presence and by passing them safely, even if that means that they sometimes need to slow down before they can pass.
You’re only seeing the concession that the faster vehicles make, because you’re starting from the assumption that the roads somehow “belong” to the faster vehicles and that everybody else has no real right to be there.
What you are basically saying to cyclists (and other slower vehicles as well) is “Please don’t use the roads even though you’re legally entitled to do so and your vehicle is designed for road use.” Sorry, but that simply doesn’t make sense as a basis for policy. If you really think that certain roads should be closed to slower vehicles, you need to change the laws to reflect that.
From the cyclists’ viewpoint, it sounds as though you’re saying “My avoiding the inconvenience of a few seconds’ delay is more important than your legal right to use this road.” Imagine how you’d feel if faster drivers decided that they wanted to ban your car from the highways because they sometimes have to slow down for a few seconds to change lanes to pass you. Would you agree with them that you “should be courteous to know that you are inconveniencing others by your actions and not do it”? Would you cheerfully agree to stay off the highways and do all your driving on the smaller roads just as a “courtesy” to the faster drivers that you’re “inconveniencing”?
As already said, it’s a public road. Everyone inconveniences others at some point, and everyone needs to accept it.
If a cyclist is blocking a 2-lane road for many minutes (i.e. 1 lane each way, heavy opposing traffic), I think that’s going too far. The cyclist should have had the foresight to choose an alternate route, or pull over every couple of minutes to let the cars pass. But in the OP’s situation, it’s just a matter of merging to the left lane to pass the cyclist. I don’t see any problem with that situation. That’s why there are multiple lanes, so vehicles of different speeds can share the road.
I’m not talking about legal rights, I’m talking about simple politeness. Sure, you have a legal right to use a road, but if you know you’re going to be inconvenencing dozens of other people on that road, than out of basic courtesy, you should not be on that road. It’s not a matter of law, it’s a matter of respect for other citizens.
What other slower vehicles are you talking about, besides bicycles? Occasionally I’ll stuck behind, say, a garbage truck which is going slower and making frequent stops, but that truck is serving a necessary purpose. What necessary purpose does you being a bike serve, other than the fact that you like riding a bike?
And before someone busts out with another idiotic tu quoque, yes, I have to be on the road. I need to get to work, so I can get paid, so I don’t fuckin’ starve to death. And the only way for me to get to work, is by car. I don’t have a choice in the matter. You do, and you’re choosing to do so in a way that you know inconveniences and pisses off other people, you just don’t care. And drivers are the ones with the sense of self-entitlement? Like hell.
It’s not necessary for you to be on that bike in the first place, is it? So by your own argument, it’s never necessary for you to slow down traffic.
And again, I don’t mind sharing the road with bikes so long as they can keep up with the flow of traffic. Which, on many streets, particularly in the city and suburbs, they can do with no problem. But if it’s too much to expect some common courtesy from you on the streets where you can’t keep up, I guess I’ll have to take your advice and see what I can do about making it illegal for them to ride on the street at all. Yeah, probably not going to happen, but then again, every time there’s another Critical Mass rally, it’s going to be that much easier to pass the appropriate legislation.
Cars slowing down to make a right turn, cars waiting to get into a crowded parking lot or drive-through, agricultural equipment, street sweepers, broken down cars, utility workers’ and lanscapers’ trucks parked on the road, etc.
Huh? I need to get to work too, same as you. And on weekends I want to go out and have fun, same reason people drive to places on weekends.
Says who? How do you know what my choices are, or those of any other cyclist? And how do I know you “don’t have a choice” or have a “necessary purpose” for driving? Why can’t you live close to your work, or get a job close to your home, or work from home? And why should I care whether you starve to death, any more than you care whether I can safely ride my bike?
Go right ahead. I would far rather have anti-bicycle advocates openly trying to ban bicycle use than sitting around irrationally grumbling about how cyclists ought to have the legal right to use the roads but just never exercise it, because it’s somehow “discourteous”.
If the majority of people really don’t want cyclists using the roads along with cars, then let them get off their whiny resentful asses and change the traffic laws to reflect that. It will be a temporary hardship for cyclists, sure, but at least communities will then have to work for a genuine solution to allow people to ride bicycles conveniently and safely.
In the meantime, as long as you’re stuck with the current makeshift compromise where bicycles are allowed to use the roads but there generally aren’t any designated bicycle lanes or signals for them (as there are here in the Netherlands), then you’re just going to have to suck up the temporary minor inconveniences of sharing the road with bicycles.
Slow down if they’re in your way, pass them safely, quit bitching about how “discourteous” it is for them to exercise their legal right to ride, and console yourself by dreaming of the day when you can legally evict them from your beloved automobile routes and have them all, all to yourself (along with all the thousands of other cars, that is).
It is the obligation of the car driver to drive safely, to pay attention to his surroundings, to yield where obliged by law (which includes safely passing all slower vehicles, including bicycles) and to understand and abide by ALL of the rules of the road, including the rule that allows bicyclists the exact same right to be there, regardless of your "inconvenience."
No, it is not. Absolutely, positively not. How 'bout we do it this way: when I’m on my bicycle, you inconvenience me, by forcing me to cross intersections twice in order to make a left turn, because you refuse to acknowledge my right to cross the traffic lanes to get to the designated left turn lane; by illegally speeding up to cross in front of me to make a right-hand turn instead of yielding the right of way to me, to which I’m entitled by law; by intentionally passing so closely as to attempt to drive me off the road entirely; by not looking where you’re going and nearly running me over when backing out of parking spaces or turning onto roads where I’m already travelling and have the right of way. Therefore, I think that you, the car driver, should be courteous enough to know that you are inconveniencing others by your actions and not do it. Stay home, take public transport, or get a bike. Quit inconveniencing me!
And it amazes me that someone has been issued a license to drive a car, and still doesn’t even grasp the most basic of concepts – that speed limits are not speed requirements.
California Driver Handbook - Sharing the Road with Other Vehicles
SLOW MOVING VEHICLES
Some vehicles are not designed to keep up with the speed of traffic. Look for these vehicles and adjust your speed before you reach them.
<snip>
Bicyclists on public streets have the same rights and responsibilities as automobile drivers. Bicyclists are part of the normal traffic flow and are entitled to share the road with other drivers. Here are some critical points for drivers and cyclists to remember: [ul][li]Bicyclists:[list][/li][li]must ride in the same direction as other traffic, not against it.[/li] [li]must ride in a straight line as near to the right curb or edge of the roadway as practical— not on the sidewalk.[/li] [li]must make left and right turns in the same way that drivers do, using the same turn lanes.[/li] [li]may legally move left to turn left, to pass a parked or moving vehicle, another bicycle, an animal, or to make a turn, avoid debris, or other hazards.[/li] [li]may choose to ride near the left curb or edge of one-way street.[/li] [li]may use a left turn lane. If the bicyclist is traveling straight ahead, he or she should use a through traffic lane rather than ride next to the curb and block traffic making right turns.[/li] [li]are lawfully permitted to ride on certain sections of freeways, when signs are posted. Be careful when approaching or passing a bicyclist on a freeway.[/ul][/li][li]Drivers must:[ul][/li][li]look carefully for bicyclists before opening doors next to moving traffic or before turning right.[/li] [li]safely merge toward the curb or into the bike lane.[/li] [li]not overtake a bicyclist just before making a right turn. Merge first, then turn.[/ul][/list][/li][/quote]
Get over your fucking entitlement attitude; it makes you a hazard behind the wheel.
First, what other purpose does riding a bike have to serve?
How about people who can’t afford cars? How about people who have no place to park one? How about people who can’t legally drive? How about people who only live three miles from work and don’t want to get the car out for that? How about people who have only one car and two employed persons? How about people who need the exercise? How about people who are committed to less pollution? How about people whose cars are in the shop? How about people who enjoy the fresh air?
I like your views on many things, but you’re being a crazy person in this thread.
I’m. Not. Talking. About. The. Law. No one has argued that you don’t have the legal right to be on the road, although you’ve all done a pretty good job of convincing me that you shouldn’t have that right, so good job on that score. Bicyclists are a teeny tiny minority of vehicles on the road, and you make it harder for lots and lots and lots and lots of other people to us the road. If you were epically self centered, you’d realize that simply courtesy would dictate that you not ride your bike in places where you create this impediment, but beause you’re far more important than anyone else around you, you don’t care.
Really? That’s your position? That if there’s no law against something, then it’s okay to do it? Is that what you’re actually trying to say, here?
See, what makes you dishonest is the way you assign actions to other posters in this thread, and then argue against them on that basis. I don’t doubt that those things have happened to you, mind, and the drivers who did those things are assholes at best, and criminals at worst. But those things don’t apply to anyone in this thread, as far as you or anyone else knows. My criticisms have been based on the self-described behavior of the bikers who have posted here. You, on the other hand, are making shit up about people because your position is entirely insupportable.
Thanks for playing anyway, though. Next time you ride your bike, try to remember to wear a helmet, so you don’t end up posting more crap like this.
Trust me, we would far prefer your hard earned tax dollars building bike paths all over hill and dale, because dealing with bad drivers is no fun. In fact, I ride a bike path for most of the commute, but to get from my home to the bike path, and to get from the bike path to my work, I’m stuck with sharing the road. I find most bicyclists to be considerate of traffic, but there are cases of bad apples that annoy me. But it seems that are way more bad apples behind the wheel than behind the handlebar. But that is probably just due to numerical superiority.
How the hell to these bicycle threads always attract so much hate?
As a regular cyclist and motor vehicle driver, I think the OP is quite right. Cyclists need to be cognizant of the conditions around them and courteous and thoughtful to those driving motor vehicles. Not just because it’s a nice thing to do, but because it’ll help you stay alive. Drivers, just make allowances and don’t hit anybody, OK?
Good. Just obey the fucking law, that’s all I ask. As for your negative opinions about cyclists, I really don’t give a shit.
Yep, you certainly got that right. And when that 3/4 ton truck runs you over because they didn’t see you, I’m sure that the person driving said truck will say, “Oops” when this is pointed out to them.
Sure whatever. 30 pound bike vs. 4000 pound vehicle. The law says many things, but reality can be quite different. It’s your life afterall.
Why don’t you get over your entitlement attitude that you can do whatever you like on the road just because it says so in the ‘rule’ book? I’m not saying for you to do anything I wouldn’t do. I wouldn’t ride a fucking bicycle on a major road just because the book says I’m allowed to do so. It would be hazardous to do so for me and more importantly for others. Yes, drivers should make allowances for asshole on bikes doing so, but the reality is that the person on the bike is delusional thinking that just because the law says they can do it they should do it.
When I sail, there are many rules and formalaties, right of way, etc. etc. One hard fast rule in sailing is the ‘Big Boat/Little Boat’ rule. That is: If your boat can be crushed by the big boat coming towards you giving no signs of acknowledging right of way, get the hell out of the way, before you and everyone on board goes to their watery grave. I also live by that rule when biking, and I’m always the little boat.
Not that I want to disagree with this, but most bike riders also drive cars, while the reverse is not necessarily true. So, the assholes on bikes add to the number of assholes in cars at times adding to the total asshole quotient of both!
Because the two sides of the issue are really so close that it creates animosity.
One side is trying to avoid death, and has spent thousands of hours in cars and on bikes.
The other side is trying to make it home to catch Seinfeld reruns and has absolutely zero experience riding a bike on public roadways but were lucky enough to be born with the knowledge of how it should be done.
Because there are always people who identify themselves as “normal people” and blame all their problems on minoritiy groups. Like the Christian conservatives blaming gays for destroying the institution of marriage, or whatever the correct phrase is. Drivrers tolerate traffic jams caused by other cars, because they’e part of their group. But a lone bicyclist - there’s a safe and specific target to blame their problems on.
I’ve noticed that I get more harrassment from drivers when I can keep up with traffic. I’d be riding in 10mph or stop-and-go traffic, easily keeping up with the flow of cars, and get tailgated and honked at. Sometimes I get passed forcibly - that is, even though there is no space in front of me (because I’m keeping pace with the car in front), a car would pull alongside me and move closer until I have no choice but to run off the road or brake and let him/her pass. That tells me those drivers are not annoyed at being forced to slow down. They just don’t like to see bicycles on the road.
Miller, what the hell is wrong with you? I’ve never known you to be this brain dead before. It’s got nothing to do with there being “no law against” bicycles sharing the road, and everything to do with the fact that there are specific laws that entitle bicyclists to equal use of the roads, slower or fucking not. Period. Just because you find it somehow discourteous or inconvenient doesn’t make you right or give you some kind of moral position over cyclists. In fact, just the opposite. You’re coming across like a whiney crybaby with your ‘I know you’re entitled to use the streets to commute, but it bothers me, so I really wish you wouldn’t get in my way, because, you know, there are more of us and we’re in big, fat hurries and all.’ Jesus, what a crock of shit.
My position that I’m legally entitled to use the roads on my bicycle and should have a reasonable expectation that automobiles know, understand and follow the rules that will allow us to do so safely is unsupportable? Are you on drugs or something?
And I’m not making shit up. I’m merely turning the tables around and reshaping the exact same points others are making, from the cyclist’s side. There’s not a damn thing dishonest about that. You just don’t have a leg to stand on, so you resort to personal accusations and name-calling. That’s what I’d call dishonest. Grow up.
The OP is such a fucking tool that he has to bitch about passing slower vehicles when he has a lane to do so. Two lanes going in your direction and you can’t figure out how to pass? Or do you just want to bitch about having to do so? Boo hoo.
How many times do I need to say that I’m not talking about laws? You have every legal right to be there. I’ve said this like five times, now. But if you’re riding your bike in such a manner that it slows down everyone else on the road, you’re being an asshole. A perfectly legal asshole, but an asshole none the less.
No, it’s merely got nothing to do with the fucking thread, as no one here as suggested anything remotely like the opposite.
I should be so lucky.
You made a list of people deliberately acting like assholes, and frequently violating the law, and then acted like that’s what the drivers in this thread do regularly. Which is bullshit: I don’t cut off bicyclists. I don’t try to edge them off the road. I don’t do a single thing you whined about. In contrast, in this thread, people have said that they have every right to ride in the middle of a lane, and if that screws up traffic, that’s just too damn bad. And that attitude, and only that attitude, is what I’ve criticized here. If there had been one poster who had come in here and said they do any of the things you were complaining about, you might be within a parsec of having a legitimate point, but guess what? No one’s done that! I never said that drivers don’t ever do those things, but none of the drivers in this thread have said anything like that, so your complaint is (stay with me, here) totally fucking pointless.
Miller, you just don’t have any understanding of bicycle safety. Pick up any book on bicycle safety - or even a web site - and it will tell you that “taking the lane” is often necessary to insure the cyclist’s safety.
