Sharon's plan is to expel the Palestinians to Jordan

Sharons plan is to expel the Palestinians to Jordan. This have been a long term plan for Israel for decades and have the last 18 months excellerated.

Israels method is to make life so misserable as possible for the Palestinians. They are using both military, economical and political opressions to make them move. Not to mention all the settlers that have moved there only the last 10 years.
Endless humiliations and meaningless meatings on top level have resulted in nothing.


Sharon and the other israeli leaders don’t fool me.

Most of the jewish settlers agree with this plan.

Sharons plan is “Eretz Israel” ?
What do you people think ?

and of course the Palestinians are completely innocent.:rolleyes:

I think that it is an interesting bit of speculation.

I also think that, as a plan, it is far-fetched.

Israel has worked a long time to establish cordial relations with Jordan. Dumping every Arab on the West Bank into Jordan would destroy that relationship while bringing Syria (and, probably Egypt, possibly Saudi Arabia) into direct conflict with Israel, returning the Middle East to its condition in April, 1967.

It would also alienate a large number of Israelis who already feel that the occupants of the West Bank are persecuted.

It would certainly put the U.S. into the position of opposing the action (and the U.N. would clearly oppose it.)

So Sharon is going to create a state of war in a way in which he will have fewer outside supporters and more internal dissenters than there has ever been in the past 54 years?

Whatever his personal desires for the West Bank, I don’t think that Sharon is quite that stupid.

I think that’s completely nuts. First of all, why would Jordan accept that deal? Second, you seem to laboring under the misconception that this is all Israel’s doing. Have you forgotten all the suicide bombers?

This is what Israel wants:

[li] An end to the violence[/li][li] Protection for the holy sites in Jerusalem and elsewhere, meaning at best shared control over these areas.[/li][li] Defensible borders[/li][li] Normal relations with her neighbors[/li][li] The existence of Israel as a Jewish state.[/li][/ul]

That’s about it. Israel has no problem with a Palestinian state, and has no problem with current Palestinians living and/or working in Israel. But it won’t accept Palestinian control of Jerusalem because of the Palestinian’s shabby history of taking care of Jewish holy sites. And Israel won’t give up the Golan Heights until Syria allows either an early warning system or turning it into a DMZ. There are other details having to do with water rights, security corridors, etc. Those were the types of details that Barak was trying to hammer out with Arafat when Arafat walked out of Camp David in 2000.

And oh…um…

I don’t hope that you are representative for the level on debates here

--------maybe Israel aren’t going to give a damn about them since they have such a large weapon arsenal …and nukes

--------Yes, but ther are also a large number of orthodox and rights wings that support the idea. The orthodox, right wingers and the settlers have increased their influence very much the last decade.

---------Israel have showed us many times that they don’t respect the UN.
USA are under pressure by a very strong jewsh lobby (AIPAC)

-------Possible, but he is an old warrior and a pretty extreme one.

I don’t think Sharon is stupid either, and I suspect that this is the reasons behind all the apparent meaningless strikes and curfews.

I also think that Israel have strong ambitions to dominate this region. Not by taking their land, but to dominate political, cultural and economicly.

Maybe he plan to give back Golan at the same time as he expels Palestinians to Joran. Israel have maybe keept Golan to have something to cool things down when this happens - if it will happend.

Please provide a cite for this plan. How many Palestinians have forcefully been deported to Jordan during this ‘acceleration’ that has taken place the past 18m?

This is official policy? I assume that you believe it is, since you describe it as the plan of an entire nation. Link to policy please…

Welcome to the SDMB. We believe in facts here, and really frown upon speculation presented as fact. If you hold the opinion that Israel has not dealt fairly with the Palestinians, there is wealth of factually information to both support and dispute that position. I suggest you look into it.

I can give you a link to related cases:

Edward S. Herman is the holder of a some fairly strong opinions, and he has put many of them to print. The fact that you share his opinions in no way proves there is an official policy to deport Palestinians or make their lives miserable. These are the two suppositions you erroneously presented as fact.

[sub]It probably has no bearing on this GD, but Mr. Herman seems fond of positing conspiratorial anti-US sentiment. “There IS a political axis of evil running strong in the United States that underpins the Bush regime, which includes the oil industry, military-industrial complex (MIC), other transnationals, and the Christian Right” – Edward S. Herman[/sub]

You don’t nead to call everybody that speak against Israel and claim to see through their motives for an antisemite.
Have you read what he wrote ?

Waverly did NOT say Heard was an anti-semite. The word “semite” did not even appear in his post.


As Guin pointed out [thanks Guin,] not only does the term ‘anti-semite’ not appear in my post, but I didn’t even make a casual reference to it. The whole point of my post was to illustrate the difference between opinion and fact. Your gross mischaracterization of my words seems indicate you don’t understand the distinction.

Do you have anything worthwhile to add, or is the lump some of your response going to be the unwarranted bandying about of knee-jerking buzzwords?

The whole idea that this is Sharon’s plan is ridiculous because Sharon knows full well that Jordan won’t take 'em. They don’t want the Palestinians any more than Israel does. In fact, none of the loving Arab brotherhood wants the Palestinians in their country.

The only place the Palestinian people want to be is in Palestine. Also most refugees would fight if any neigbouring countries offered to take then in.

Let me then give you some points:

-Sharon have said that he wanted one million jews to come to Israel over a periode of 10 years. (2001)

-The settlers, orthodox and a lot of right wing politicans have stated that they want this to happend (expel arabs to Jordan)

-The israeli minister that was killed last year have said that he wanted to expel all/most israeli arabs in Israel and arabs in Palestine.

  • The orthodox have increased their influence a lot the last two decades. Many families have up to 10 children.

-Israels have made life so misserable as possible for the Palestinians. They are using both military, economical and political opressions against them.

  • Israel have showed us many times that they don’t respect the UN.

  • USA are under pressure by a very strong jewsh lobby (AIPAC).

  • Sharon is an old warrior and a pretty extreme one.

  • Israel have Golan to possible use in a deal with Syria.

  • Israel have a large weapon arsenal, money support from USA and nukes. A man like Sharon may not give a damn if he destroys what’s been achieved between Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Syria.

  • It seams that the Israelis are pretty good in provocing a situasion that may give them the excuses they think they nead.

  • The settler population and new settlements have encreased much the last 10 years at the cost of palestinian homes.

  • Many have accused Israel for ethnic cleansing

  • Israels have given the palestinians a deal which they knew they couldn’t accept.
    Here are an link for an assessment of the Israeli Practices on the Palestinian agricultural Sector
    September 29, 2000 – February 28, 2002


The idea the OP is writing about is known in Israel as “Transfer”, and has been floating around the Israeli political arena for the last twenty years or so. It was held mainly by members of the far-right Moledet party, which was led - until his murder last fall - by the late Rehavam Ze’evi; as far as I know, Moledet never got more than 3% of the vote. Very few other parlimentarians have ever supported the idea. In fact, Transfer is the Israeli far-right Shibbolet - like, say, anti-gay legistlation in the U.S., or perhaps banning evolution studies - and no politicail with any intention on appealing to moderates will ever dare suggest it, either to the public or in the halls of the Knesset.

While I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of settlers supported transfer, you must bear in mind that the settlers make up less than 5% of Israeli society; outside their circles, the subject is nearly anathema. There is very little practicle support for the idea among the general public. While I doubt many Israelis would object if all the Palestinians decided suddenly - on their own - to leave the Territories, few are willing to face the political and moral consequences of forcing them out.

As for Sharon - he has never voiced any support of the idea of transfer; and while we cannot know what his own personal beliefs are - few Israelis believe he is a particularly moral individual - he’s far to canny a politician to ever push for this kind of solution. Besides, what he believes isn’t really relevent. No Israeli cabinet will ever approve such a plan, and no Knesset will ever ratify it. Not if they want to be re-elected.

You have a good point there, but we don’t know what will happend if the extremists increase their influense more.

I see Sharon and his “gang” as bunch semi-extremists which is under preassure of an increasing number of full hearted extremist.

The murdered minister was one of the full hearted extremists.

Many orthodox see upon Israel/Palestine as a religious mandate and not a political one. They see all this from a “given by god” perspective.

Well of course they see it as a religious mandate! What did you think they were fighting about? And that’s exactly why no peace plan will be acceptable. The Israelis will never give up Jerusalem, which is holy to them. Some Palestinians will never give up until Israel is erased from the map because they believe that is their holy destiny. They are able to convince people to become suicide bombers because they believe they will be going to Heaven. Etc.

Aren’t you on thin ice here ?

Palestinians does not have as a goal to eraze Israel.
Even Hamas have staded that they want Israel to drow back to the 1967 border. (but I can’t say for sure what these extremistic groups want’s)

Palestina want’s East-Jerusalem as they capital, not the whole City.

By the way: I think that Jerusalem are holy to the moslems too.

Let’s make one thing clear: Israel is a political mandate, not a religious one.

Yes, but there will always exist such groups on both sides. They are only marignal groups thoug and they will be even more marignal when Israel fulfill what UN have said.

You must also see that Israel them selves creates much of these extreme groups and individuals that attack them.