There is a great deal of difference between what people admit to thinking is wrong when asked by other people and what they actually consider “wrong”. These billboards promote discussion and they reinforce protecting the victims, rather than looking for excuses for the behavior.
That overwhelming majority of men need to be more concerned about respecting everyone daughter before their own egos.
There’s something about the specificity of that which makes it sound even more odd to me. It’s like we’re entering in the middle of a conversation. Like there was first a billboard that said: “No incest!” Then the men replied with a billboard of their own, which went: “Look, sometimes we get drunk. Cut us some slack, OK?”. And now we’re on the second round of the billboard exchange.
Please note: I don’t claim “sounds odd to me” as a reason for anyone to remove or alter their billboards.
So I wonder how it would go over if they had a billboard showing, say, a female teacher standing behind a desk in a classroom with her blouse unbuttoned, maybe slipping out of her skirt, with a 14 year old boy standing in front of her, with the caption “He’s your STUDENT - NOT your sex toy”?
I’m sure women’s groups would have that pulled down pretty quickly.
But I guess it’s okay to attack men en masse, though
If you think it’s directed at you, and you’re not getting drunk and fucking your daughter, you’re maybe a wee bit sensitive.
I can’t think of a single women’s group that would have a problem with the alternative billboard you suggest. The question is whether it’s worth pouring resources into an issue that’s statistically rare vs. one that’s much more common.
Why would you think that?
Really? You feel this billboard is attacking you, personally? Do you get similarly outraged by “Don’t drink and drive” billboards? Neighborhood watch signs? “Please wash hands after using” notices in bathrooms?
This seems to contradict what you have said earlier in the thread. You said you understood why the wording of the sign communicates poorly. That is sends an unintended message that could somewhat offend others.
But now being offended means you are too sensitive? Do you really want to go down that road of dismissing people for being too sensitive? I loathe that practice when it’s used against minority complaints, and I can’t see how it’s any better here.
And, hell, now that you’ve given the first part of the sign, the fix is as easy as switching to third person: his daughter, not his date. And then adding a URL to go to so you can learn the warning signs of child sexual abuse.
Without that last part, the awareness it’s raising isn’t all that useful. How are they supposed to identify a child who has been abused in that manner? Even if the perpetrator realizes how bad is was when they sober up, they aren’t going to tell anyone. And, if the victim was going to talk, they were already going to talk.
Sure, a number to call if you suspect abuse is good, too. But you need to know what to look out for. And that’s easier to show in a longer text form.
The Neighborhood watch sign just informs you it’s there–it’s not in second person. The other two are reminders. Before drinking, secure some sort of transportation. And, yeah, don’t forget to wash your hands. The latter also tells customers that the employees wash their hands, reassuring them.
The sign is accusatory. It uses second person. And it sends the message that fathers need to be reminded not to fuck their daughters when drunk. You acknowledged this upthread for why the sign wasn’t okay.
Why does encountering one of the people offended by that message change the dynamic?
His daughter’s in
The family way
For Eros beat out
Agape
Burma Shave
Yes, and my opinion changed when I read the whole message. It complete changes the meaning of the billboard.
[QUOTE=BigT]
But now being offended means you are too sensitive? Do you really want to go down that road of dismissing people for being too sensitive? I loathe that practice when it’s used against minority complaints, and I can’t see how it’s any better here.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, if you’re more offended by the wording of a billboard about incest than you are about actual incest, then being a ‘wee bit sensitive’ is about the nicest way I can put it. You’re talking to a fucking victim of incest. I’m not without humor but this thread has basically devolved into jokes about incest and comments on how it’s not that big of a problem. I’m in support of anything that might potentially prevent others from going through what happened to me. I’m less than concerned about people worried their property values are going to go down or what the fuck ever because a stupid billboard gives them uncomfortable feelings. You know how uncomfortable it is to be dated by your father? Wanna talk about uncomfortable? What the fuck do you expect me to say?
Why would you think that? Most women would applaud such a message. Most men seem to be a lot more accepting of adolescent boys being raped by women than women are.
AND that is even creepier than the original. Now getting drunk is an excuse for raping your date?
Also this.
Forgive me if it’s already been suggested, but would the billboard be more effective if the audience were shifted?
“You’re not his date, you’re his daughter. Call 1800-get-help”
Or vice versa- you’re his daughter, not his date.
I really don’t understand how this could possibly be an interpretation of that phrasing. Most people who rape their daughters don’t think they are committing rape. They think they are just having sex, like they do any time they get drunk and screw someone. The billboard in no way implies it’s okay to rape your date, it implies there is a significant difference between getting drunk and screwing your date and getting drunk and screwing your daughter. One is sex, the other is rape.
I think the point trying to be made here is that having drunken sex with a date CAN ALSO be rape - if the person is drunk enough to be unable to consent, or the other person is drunk enough and physically strong enough to not care about getting consent.
It’s not minimizing incest, which is always rape, it’s presenting an argument for an alternative situation that can very well also be rape.
Sure, but if I’m cruising down the road, and I see an anti-incest billboard that might, by its most ungenerous interpretation, be construed as condoning date rape, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that the intent was not to do that.
If we’re arguing that men who rape their daughters will ignore such a billboard, are we now arguing that men who rape their dates will not? ‘‘Oh, this billboard says it’s it’s okay to rape my date, so I guess I’ll go do that now.’’
If we could take a moment and actually look at the poster creators’ stated intent, according to the linked article, it’s in second person because it’s intended to be the community speaking up for the victim. It’s about the community taking a stand against incest. Before putting up the billboards, the organization went essentially door to door with local businesses to gain their support in taking a collective stand against incest. I know some people don’t think such a thing is necessary, but statistics on the prevalence of sexual abuse by family members and the experiences of incest survivors being ignored and ostracized by their own communities say otherwise.
How do you figure? That, actually, is a problem I have with the billboard - its stated target is too broad. Under the philosophy that any sexual activity between consenting adults is okay (at least as far as the law should be concerned - individual morals are different), incest can be fine. If you have two adult siblings, for example, who for whatever reason want to be in a sexual relationship, I wouldn’t stop them.
Rape, pedophilia, and child abuse are clearly NOT okay. I wish the billboard said it was calling out THOSE things instead of such a broad category as “incest.” (Though I will say that I would support higher ages of consent for incestuous relationships to minimize chances of abuse.)
I cannot conceive of any situation where consent would be possible between an adult father and daughter. The power dynamic is fundamentally unequal.
Especially cuz if an adult man is screwing his adult daughter he’s probably been doing it since long before she reached the age of consent. She’s already in a state of learned helplessness.
The world is big and weird. I can conceive of it. (Again: emphasis on ADULT daughter - not what the billboard is fighting.)
May as well have signs that say “please do not commit armed robbery, arson or murder”. This community sounds totally warped.