I was just listening to a podcast they have of the show and they talked about how they worked on the script. Apparently they first wrote in Englsih, then had that translated into Japanese, then sent to an expert of the language of the period to further work on it, before it made it to the actors. From the sound of it this was no simple google translate job and it shows.
In the book they trade friendly insults in Spanish and speak in Portuguese, also in the book, he only talks to the priest he meets in prison in Spanish which is one reason why he accepted to help him. Of course that whole sequence in the book is much longer from what they put on screen, thought they covered the essentials nicely.
[spoiler]The escape from Osaka was well done, and generally true to the book.
They simplified the sequence on the boats; in the book, a lot more happens, there’s more movement back and forth, Blackthorne gets really drunk, and a number of other side scenes happen. It is actually one of my least favorite parts of the book; it’s too long to maintain pace and sense of urgency. This is an area where the show is actually BETTER.
The “My Lord hates that” about being allowed to win is in a different part of the book and includes a reference to a general who did allow Toranaga to win a race. As the book relates, “That mistake cost the man everything.”
Nebaru Jozen doesn’t appear this early in the book. He has a much more limited role. Introducing him as Ishido’s muscle is an interesting choice.
It’s made unclear in the show, but at this stage, Yabu is NOT Toranaga’s vassal. He is of equal rank; he’s daimyo of the province of Izu. Toranaga is just much more influential and powerful and Yabu is trying to use him. This is why Ishido is trying to get Yabu on his side - both Ishido and Toranaga are working the political levels to amass as many daimyos as they can. The big ones you’ve see on the Council of Regents are just the most important. There’s dozens of them.
This is made abundantly clear in the novel and is used to show you the characterizations. When Hiro-matsu shows up to seize Erasmus, the barbarians and the ship’s contents, at Toranaga’s direction, his full expectation is that Yabu will immediately have him killed for such an insulting act - he has zero legal right to demand those things. He is amazed that Yabu immediately rolls over, just as Toranaga predicted he would.
Fujiko receiving the remains of her husband and son isn’t in the book (in the book her husband is crucified in disgrace.) It’s a touching scene and beautifully shot, I really liked it.
[/spoiler]
I enjoyed this episode a lot more than the first two.
Thank you so much for this post, spoilers and all. I did read the book ages ago and I’ve seen the 1980 version several times, but I’m having a bit of a time keeping up. I know I’ll need to watch this several times, especially the first episode. And reread this thread a few times, too. And as soon as the series finishes, I’ll be reading the book again (probably listening, actually, as I love the dramatic presentation of audiobooks).
Do you agree with me that Jarvis’s diction is quite Richard Burton-esque?
Would you explain this subplot a bit? Exactly who is she and who was her husband? And why were he and the baby killed?
Fujiko is the husband of a samurai (? - maybe minor daimyo, I haven’t read the books) who is pledged to Toranaga. He is the guy who interrupts the Regent Council meeting, thus committing a grave “sin”. For this, he is ordered to kill himself and his infant son. She (Fujiko) wants to join them in death, but is denied the request.
[spoiler] In both the show and book, he interrupts an important meeting involving Toranaga and Ishido.
In show, he offers to commit seppuku and to also kill his son. In the book, Toranaga orders them executed, and denies him the honor of seppuku.[/spoiler]
It’s been a long time since I saw Richard Burton in anything.
He is much, much closer to my image of Blackthorne than I expected. I’d never heard of the guy and in interviews he’s quiet and reserved, which Blackthorne is not.
I’ve really warmed up to the guy who pays Buntaro. No, he isn’t the stout, “neckless” guy in the book but he’s big and strong and violent.
We haven’t seen enough of Omi yet and might not end up seeing much - the show just doesn’t have the time. Might never meet some characters at all.
Okay, I do remember seeing exactly that. I guess I just couldn’t believe the mismatch of punishment and crime. I was sure I must have missed something. I guess not.
You have to remember though that Omi did not go with Yabushige to Osaka, so there has not been much opportunity for him to appear on screen. It is likely he will appear more in the next set of episodes once they return to Anjiro. Toranaga did mention Yabushige’s son which is not mentioned in the novels, so that is a departure and maybe he will take his role in certain respects.
Omi has already done some of the initial Omi things so I think he’ll be the guy.
He is a terrific character. I’d love it if this way a 20-episode series so we could get into those characters. Gyoko is another good character we might get shortchanged on.
It’s not a mismatch in feudal Japan. His stupidity and lack of control, as Toranaga in the book points out, almost cost Toranaga everything, and as it happened right in front of Ishido, Toranaga had to be strict.
In the book, he is forced to literally crawl away in shame. As he does so stiocally, Clavell writes that all the samurai watching are now immensely impressed with his self control, and “told themselves contentedly that he would be reborn Samurai.”
Part of the genius of the book is that the Japanese culture of 1600 feels so alien to the reader, and by the end of the book, it’s the Europeans who are the weirdos.
Deciding whether to watch. Are there subtitles, or like in the original miniseries are we as lost as Blackthorne is when Japanese is spoken? I thought that was a brilliant risk taken by the creators of that series (although they did cheat a bit having Orson Welles narrate some important internal dialogue) .
Plus I have read the book many times since the old miniseries and in my mind Toranaga has always been Toshiro Mifune, Blackthorne has always been Richard Chamberlain, and Rodrigues has always been John Rhys-Davies (to the point where when Gimli shown up in LotR I my reaction was “that’s Rodrigues-San” as opposed to the usual “that’s Sallah”).
There’s subtitles any time the dialogue is relevant, which is most of the time.
There is no internal dialogue, which is the most significant departure from the book; the book has more internal dialogue than actual dialogue. With a few critical and well chosen exceptions, the book tells you what people are thinking, what they fear, what their intentions are. There’s no easy way to present that on screen.
So far I think this is about as good as it COULD be.
I always have subtitles/captions on whenever I watch anything on TV, including YouTube (even though the latter are automatically generated and occasionally quite amusing).
I like the show but there is something that annoys me.
If they have a portion of the cast speaking Japanese and put English captions on the screen there’s absolutely no reason why they couldn’t have the Portuguese characters speaking Portuguese and also put English captions on the screen and then gradually make everyone speaking English.
It irritates me to no end listening to the Japanese characters speaking in Japanese and having to put up with characters speaking in English pretending to be Portuguese.
As others have alluded there are subtitles, but I should also note that there are many scenes where Blackthorne is not present, and it would not make sense for those scenes to be played out without subtitles.
I agree to some extent, but the truth is that no one speaks English in the novel, except for a few times that Blackthorne makes a few utterances. The rest of the time, he either speaks Portuguese, Spanish, Latin or Dutch. All the Japanese who speak something other than Japanese speak Portuguese. This could have been made more clear, thought at the same time it would be a lot of work to get all the actors to learn Portuguese just for a few scenes, while the Japanese actors have no such problem speaking Japanese. At the same time, there is no question that the non-Japanese characters all understand each other and are talking the same language, so there is no need to explicitly show what that language is.
There is a dubbed version of Shōgun being released at the same time. I have not checked it out myself, but maybe that would be preferable?
I understand why the show is in English. Obviously it is going to have a much bigger appeal, but they could have kept the secondary characters speaking Portuguese to add to the realism.
The problem for me is that there is no Portuguese spoken like at all when they are the main antagonists so far?
The show would be so much more epic.
That is in addition to speaking Portuguese, not instead of, and other than one main character, very much struggle to do use or understand it. They do not generally use it to communicate with other non-Japanese. Unless it is explicitly stated in the book, the assumption is that they are speaking Portuguese.
As far as I can remember, only Mariko and the Japanese acolytes (most notably Uraga and Brother Michael) speak Latin. Generally Latin is effectively a secret code that allows Mariko and Blackthorne to speak withour fear of eavesdroppers. Clavell uses a very somewhat stilted and formal version of English to indicate Latin.
Part of the magic of the original miniseries was that we only understood what Blackthorne understood and had to figure things out along side him. I felt a bit sorry for Japanese speakers watching the series because they missed out on that part of the experience.
Of course you can get away with a gamble like this when there are only three commercial networks (yes, kids, there was a time when Fox did not exist as a TV network) and PBS broadcasting original programming.
It’s a neat idea. This, however, is far more true to the book. The book doesn’t leave you in the dark about what the Japanese characters are saying or thinking, which makes them much more interesting, fleshed-out characters.
Didnt like the third episode… clearly a few steps down from the first two episodes.
Hard to tell what was going during the ambush battle and the boat ride to prevent going into the rocks and the swim portion were just a complete waste of time.
and it shows.