Shogun on FX

Episode 4, “The Eightfold Fence,” dropped.

[spoiler]
They changed Blackthorne’s job. In the book, he actually is teaching Yabu’s men in infantry tactics. In the show he admits to not really knowing that stuff, but comes up with the idea of teaching them to use his English cannon, which are vastly superior to the Spanish ones they’ve seen before. It’s also just more cinematic.

This is a huge, huge improvement. It never made sense to me that a professional sailor somehow knew infantry tactics better than soldiers who would have already known how to use guns.

The scene with Blackthorne, Omi and Fujiko was well done.

Omi emerges here as the outstanding character he is; we see he and Kiku are in love, and his scheming and cleverness. We get to see a lot of Naga, too. Naga’s elimination of Jozen isn’t quite what it was in the book but it’s really well done.

Many other little changes from the book, but the general thrust of the story is solid.[/spoiler]

So glad you’re posting here! I’ll probably be back tomorrow morning with my questions. :saluting_face:

As an aside, I would point out some of the show’s changes bring the show MUCH closer to historical realism than the book. In the book it’s sort of confusing as to Blackthorne’s value in training men. Clavell never really explains what knowledge he is conveying to the Musket Regiment and there is never a scene where he actually trains them. It’s not at all clear just what the Japanese do or don’t know; they are not surprised at the mysterious boom-sticks.

In fact, the Japanese at this time had plenty of guns and experience using them. The Japanese army that unsuccessfully invaded Korea in the 1590s (a war referring to in both show and book) was, by the end of the war, one of the the most gun-armed army that had ever existed up to that point in history. They would have had nothing at all to learn from an English sailor on that point, though it is absolutely true that there would have remained a strong cultural disdain for them, especially for use against other samurai. However, their facility with artillery would have been very limited - they had a few cannons but not many and certainly nothing of the quality a state of the art English or Dutch warship would have carried.

I agree that the change in regards to what Blacthorne showed/taught them made it more period authentic than the book. And even with that change they kept to the narrative of the book with Mariko keeping a journal of what was being done as well as the teaching of Japanese.

I felt though that Fuji (Fujiko in the book) was not portrayed as well as in the book. Yes, the scene with Omi was good, but I felt that she came out in general as a bit petulant in certain scenes. In the book although she does not want to take the role she is given, as soon as she decides she will do it, she does it wholeheartedly. For example, in the novel she gives the swords to Blackthorne not in response to anything, but because it his right, even expected, giving his position and status.

The inclusion of them eating nattō was fun, but I think made for modern audiences, since it is a food that still exists and is eaten in Japan today. It is an acquired taste (which I have not yet to acquire) and the description Blackthorne gives as he eats it is fairly accurate :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:. It can be bought at just about any asian food store if anyone wants to try. Usually it is eaten over rice.

In general it was nicely done. I think the passage of time was nicely handled without resorting to some words that read like “a few weeks later” or whatever. How Naga was manipulated was also good as in the Novel it is not as clear as it came across in the episode. Also the description of the Eightfold Fence was nice as well even though it was not quite the same way as in the novel.

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Your posts are very helpful. I know I’m going to have to watch the whole thing over again.

The series online support stuff is good. Such as this page:


I read the book a long time ago, and these days I listen to audiobooks while walking. I downloaded the book-- it’s in two parts with a combined total listening time of ~53 hours. :open_mouth:

(A typical audiobook/novel is ~7-10 hours.)

James Clavell was known for how long his novels to the point that when he died a comedian joked that the epitaph on his gravestone was several pages long.

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This part is much better in the show. It’s never all that well explained in the book just what was done to manipulate him; he seems to get angry at Jozen for no especially clear reason at all.

[spoiler]In the book, the aftermath of killing Jozen amounts to very little. It seems to be dismissed as a matter of honor and I don’t remember anything even saying if Ishido noticed or cared. The scene is very drawn out, though, and with a touching bit about two of Jozen’s men.

What matters later is we have a scene with Toranaga and Naga that tells us a lot about them - about Naga’s youth and lack of self control and patience contrasting with his wise father, but we also see, which is reinforced elsewhere, that for all his youthful ignorance Toranaga loves him dearly and is indulgent of him.

It’s also odd Mariko would pronounce this “War.” In the book there’s no open war at this point, or for some time.

[/spoiler]

Can you say a little more about this? I thought Naga wanted to show Toranaga that he could be a pro-active, decisive leader, to “makes his bones.” But I’m not sure what Naga’s excuse/trigger was?

To “make one’s bones” is an American English idiom meaning to take actions to establish achievement, status, or respect. It is an idiomatic equivalent of “establish[ing] one’s bona fides”.

In the book it’s very unclear. He claims Jozen insulted Toranaga, but Jozen never does so and if Omi convinces Naga he did, or convinces him to kill Jozen for some other reason, it’s not in a scene we get to see. We never get a scene in the book like we do in the show where we see Omi actually manipulating him.

Episode 5 just dropped. Very good.

Significant deviations from novel:

[spoiler]Generally speaking at this point I think the order of small things is so different from the novel I’m losing track.

The dinner with Anjin-san, Mariko and Buntaro was very tense and well done.

The Lady Ochiba just outright announcing she’s taking over the council is NOT a welcome change. It doesn’t make any sense and suggests they’re turning her into the primary antagonist, and some kind of girl boss character that she wasn’t and that doesn’t fit the setting.

Yabu is a little too openly weaselly now. He is a weasel, but he should be outwardly macho and filled with bravado.

The anger Mariko expressed to the Anjin-san doesn’t really happen in the book.

Turning Ueki-ya’s death into a fakeout on the spy matter doesn’t happen in the book but is a nice little change to make that story more part of the overall story.

The special effects on the earthquake were incredibly good. Roland Emmerich films don’t look that good. When we first see the hill giving way over Blackthorne’s shoulder my jaw dropped. [/spoiler]

They certainly crammed a lot of story into that episode and did a good job of it. In the book the same sequence of events takes longer and the earthquake part is more dramatic though the main thrust is the same. In the book, who the spy is, is revealed almost at the end, but having it occur at this point was appropriate. I also feel that Yabu is being portrayed correctly, in the Novel we have more access to his thoughts so we know what he feels when he is accepting what Toranaga says, something they can’t do here, but manage to show us by how his manner changes around Omi.

The things that did bother me though, were the portrayal of Buntaro and Toranaga. In the novel Buntaro is certainly unhappy about Blackthorne, but he still acknowledges that he did save Toranaga and shows him some level of respect, though begrudging. In this episode he is completely contemptuous and really being bad mannered. The whole thing with the bow also is given a completely different view in the series. In the book, there is no tension around it being that he might hit Mariko, both Buntaro and Mariko trust his skill and the actions happen so quickly there is no time for Blackthorne to react, it plays more like a Legolas shooting skill moment than what is portrayed here. The fact that he hit the post is actually not seen as back luck by the people in the house since it actually showed great skill, which Blackthorne has to grudgingly acknowledge.

The visuals were great though and the part with Buntaro apologizing was well done and accurately portrayed.

As to Toranaga, it does seem to be more in character for a lord not to care about what happens in a particular household in regards to the death of one person. In the novel though, he is more involved and it is used to show how he knows how to handle Blackthorne to get the best out of him for his purposes. That is subtlety is now shown in this instance. That they used the death in a way that was not done in the book did not bother me, though having read the book I guessed as to what would happen when there was talk of having to find a spy.

I liked how they showed the conflict of figuring out who would be the 5th regent which was simply mentioned in the novel and not given its own scene. I also liked how they showed Fuji really taking her role as consort seriously by asking the questions about what might endanger Blackthorne.

As to the ending, of the episode, I do not give too much importance. Much like Mariko saying, this is war at the end of the previous episode with no war actually breaking out, I think it is more for drama than anything else. It is clear in the book that she a formidable and ambitious woman and has a lot of influence on Ishido in particular though it is not revealed as directly as in the episode, and the episode when the Taiko died.

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FWIW as someone who never read the book and doesn’t remember seeing the old series of it, judging this on its own merits it is really quite good.

What annoys me is the whole rotting pheasant thing. Does the book ever explain why he thought a stew made of rotten pheasant was a good idea? Was this an actual historical dish?

And why leave it up after the stew was made?

He was actually given two different things in the book from the hunt, but it is not explained in the episode. A rabbit and a pheasant. The rabbit is what was in the stew, which you hear him say when he tries to serve it. The pheasant that he hung up was going to be for later. Aging game birds by hanging them is something that is still done, so Blackthorne doing so is not simply an affectation of the time. In the book it is clear that he forgot that he had been aging it and might have disposed of it himself because it was too far gone, which is one additional reason he is upset. Also, he does not explicitly say that anyone who touches it will be killed, he just said it is forbidden for anyone but him to touch it.

One of the reasons everyone is upset is that none of them eat meat, so him fixing any kind of meat dish is offensive, but is his right as head of the house. That is why the cook says he can’t stay there, with Fuji telling him to stay. The same is true about the scramble regarding cooking utensils because in the book a prized knife becomes “defiled” when Blackthorne uses it to cut the rabbit. This is not explicitly shown in the episode so it does not come across as well. There may be an extended version somewhere that does not have that part edited out.

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Okay, yeah, none of that came across in the episode. I knew about aging game birds, but not to this extent!

But it’s weird that none of them eat meat at all, as meat is pretty common in Japanese cuisine, even if they did use more vegetables overall as compared to European dishes. Hell, it was Toranaga who gave him the bird, so what exactly was he hunting for, if not to eat?

It is now. It was not then - here’s an entire wiki on history of meat consumption in Japan. Short version - there was some game meat consumption in the north in particular, but by and large Buddhist values tended society towards vegetarianism (or at least a somewhat pescatorian version of vegetarianism) to the point where at various times edicts against meat-eating were actually promulgated. Meat-eating seems to have never vanished and continued to occur on the down low even when banned. But in polite society at least it was publicly abhorred.

I haven’t watched episode 4 yet.

But could @icon or @RickJay or someone else explain the business a while back where Toranaga had Blackthorne jump repeatedly off the side of the boat and then eventually wanted to race him? What was that all about?

That part made sense to me, as someone who studies a traditional Japanese martial art. Toranaga asked Blackthorne to teach him how to dive. That was in a bit of dialogue you might have missed. But then he just watches Blackthorne dive over and over. This is part of traditional Japanese teaching - the student is expected to “steal” techniques by watching the sensei, there’s not as much explicit instruction as with European teaching methods. So Toranaga watches until he thinks he’s got it, and then challenges Blackthorne, as a way of showing off/establishing dominance.

From the series (and the book) it is a pastime he enjoys. As he states there is a lot to learn from falconry about using people and command in general. From the book, it is explicitly stated that not all of his soldiers are Buddhists and often would give them the game. He was not hunting for his own food, which if he wanted he could get any number of people to do for him.

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Just to add that in the book, it is explicitly stated that he required his retainers learn how to swim, and would sometimes race them. If he thought you let him win, you would be in trouble, which Mariko states in episode. The diving from a ship was the new part.

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