And there are many many people in chairs, and on crutches that CAN’T use a standard stall at all, no space or no grab bars. Fuck, even on crutches I can’t use a standard stall without grab bars or some helpful huskiy people to haul my gimp ass off the stool. What are we supposed to do, crawl on the floor and hope someone is there to help us? There is a reason that HC stalls are there, and designed the way they are [and believe me, there are many many HC stalls out there that are not designed properly. And what fucking bright wit decided that the place to put the Tp dispenser is UNDER the grabrail? Ever tried to fold in half and reach a foot from the floor to manipulate a roll to peel off the TP a sheet at a time because it has one of those restrictive spools that locks up every couple sheets so you can’t get enough out?] You don’t need to be in a chair to have knees that do not bend, the inability to stand without a grab rail, back injuries that prevent standing without a grab bar. These injuries prevent use of a standard stall even when the person isn’t in a chair.
And people wonder why people like me tend to just not want to bother trying to go out in public. Between being stared at, wisecracks made about conditions, and shitty behavior towards us sort of makes me want to start wearing a shirt that says Im a gimp, now fuck off and leave me alone.
This may vary from state to state. I know that I have heard my husband complain about bathrooms where the changing table is inside the HC stall.
I will also mention that another constituency where the HC stall is a lot easier to use is parents with small children. Maybe you want to take them in there in the stroller so you can keep them from crawling on the filthy floor, maybe you just want a place to stand while helping position them on the bowl, maybe you want a place for them to stand so you can keep an eye on them while you do your business.
If you get off your high horse arvgun I also later conceded that I only had my niece’s experience to go by on that statement. How she was able to do that I do not know nor do I care at this point. She is only about 100 pound so that perhaps is how she is able to do it. I almost responded to your original post but opted to not since I wasn’t sure what purpose it would serve since I doubt I can convince you.
However there are lots of disabilities that don’t require the HC stall which is what I stated in my original point.
"EEOC provided the following list of “commonly disabling impairments as part of its Interpretive Guidance to the proposed regulations, which included: - Orthopedic, visual, speech, and hearing impairments; - Tuberculosis; - HIV infection; - AIDS; - Cerebral palsy; - Epilepsy; - Muscular dystrophy; - Multiple sclerosis; - Cancer; - Heart disease; and - Diabetes.’’
I still believe the majority of those disabilities as stated above could use a standard stall if they needed to. See that phrase ‘needed to’, I am not suggesting we eliminate HC stalls so not sure why the hostility. My niece needed to use the restroom and she found a way to do it, clearly YMMV. My original point (which seems to have gotten lost in all this hubris) is that that the HC stall is for use by all patrons, and is an accommodation for those with disabilities, which is a fair and true statement.
I have a huge appreciation for the difficulties that disabled individuals have after seeing what my niece has to go through and myself after breaking my hip and being on crutches for six months. Hell the transfer in the shower to that damn bench was tramatic enough. I felt like I was going to fall on the damn floor everytime I took a shower.
I felt I had an understanding beforehand, but that was very eye opening for me. My wife has MS, so although she is healthy right now, she easily could be in a wheelchair at some point. So don’t paint me as some clueless fool who doesn’t have a clue about these issues. I may never (hopefully) be in a wheelchair, but I do take my work seriously in designing facilities that are accessible by all and I do take umbrage with your flippant portrayal of my concern.
Well, you kinda seemed to flippantly assume that people with disabilities were using the special stalls for convenience’ sake, rather than necessity. Many wheelchairs just wouldn’t fit through a regular stall door, and getting up stairs is impossible. I mean, youi know that, don’t you, obviously, so your original claim is a bit hard to understand.
There are tons of disabilities that don’t need disabled stalls, sure, but I don’t think anyone was claiming that every disability merited getting to the front of the queue, only those which are actually relevant.
Perhaps your niece is able to take a few steps, which can make all the difference, or has someone helping her.
I used to work with a disabled youth group, and one of the other men who worked there was incredibly fit and active but completely paralysed below the waist, and he’d wheel himself for miles all over the place, and was happy to get out of the chair and drag himself across the floor, make all sorts of effort, etc.
But even he had huge problems with getting to the loo while out and about. Often the only way for him use a loo was to ask someone to lift him up and place him on the toilet. That depends on him being able to get to the stall in the first place, it’s embarrassing and relies on there being someone else around - I can’t imagine many men willingly doing that for a stranger in a public restroom.
Your poll seems confusing to me. I would say you should not “go adhead [sic]” if there’s someone in the line who is disabled to the point where the handicapped stall is a necessity.
A broken arm does not count as being that handicapped, unless the other stall(s) is particularly small in width. It’s more if the handicapped person can’t use the other stall(s).
BTW, my comments about disabled stalls being only for people with actual disabilities apply to places open to the public, not to offices - I have no idea about them.
Turns out you can buy radar keys online! You definitely couldn’t before. Very handy.
Permanently disabled Doper chiming in (wheelchair) IF you don’t see wheelchair user, or someone on crutches, THEN, and ONLY THEN, should you use the handicapped stall. BTW, IA that a broken arm isn’t in the same league as wheelchair or (temporary) leg injury.
No. She flat out said that any handicapped person can use any stall, including any in wheelchairs She was wrong, but has refused to admit it. The fact that other types of handicapped people exist doesn’t change the fact that she was wrong, and, by refusing to admit it, she insults the handicapped people who couldn’t use the stall. Of course she’s going to get some heat for it.
Just like I used to say to a certain someone who gets (or at least used to get) pitted for this all the time: how hard is it to just say, “I’m sorry I offended you. I was wrong. I didn’t mean to offend,” rather than to keep spinning things so you are right?
That said, it’s something I have to remind myself so I don’t again become the asshole who got pitted a while back, so I get it. I just want to make sure HM understands.
I would never dream of using the handicap stall ahead of a person who was disabled, but a broken arm would not have pinged as disabled for me. Sorry Annie, I don’t mean to be inconsiderate… it just simply wouldn’t occur to me that you might need the extra space :headslap:
The above is what I originally posted. I bolded the part where evidently SciFiSam and Big T are having difficulties. Where do I say ‘wheelchair’ and where do I talk about 'stairs"? Where am I flippant? I never assumed anything about someone using the HC toilet other then that a disabled person could use a regular stall, note–I did not say ALL disabled persons could use a regular stall. The HC stall is an accommodation to assist those who need it. That is factual and you really should not read anything into that statement then that.
The OP is referring to an issue which many would not consider a disability, the broken arm. So the range of disabilities is relevant to the discussion as there are many disabilities where you would never know it that would/could require someone moving to the front of the line. When I was on crutches and went to a public restroom I waited my turn. I didn’t feel I needed the use of the HC toilet, nor cutting in line. Others likely would have and that is what I understood the OP to be about.
Later posts I did discuss the use of a wheelchair, but subsequently I conceded I was in error. If that wasn’t clear, let me state it here. I was in error that most wheel chair disabled people could easily use a regular stall. Perhaps it is only my niece who can do that, due to her weight and upper arm strength, I really don’t know. So if my later comments upset someone, then I do apologize for that, as my never would have been my intent. However I fail to see how my original comment is in error. And with that I am done with this thread, and OP, sorry for the hijack.
Well, usually saying ‘A HC person can use a regular toilet stall, but it is more difficult’ would that you were talking about people with disabilities in general, and yes, that does mean all people with disabilities.
If you phrased yourself badly and what you really meant was ‘some disabled people can use a regular stall,’ then why did it take you this long to clarify that? Why did you choose to, instead, keep on arguing that all disabled people can use regular stalls?
I’m not buying it. You got it wrong. It happens to us all on the odd occasion. Better to admit it than continue to quibble and try to make out that people were ‘upset’ or ‘having difficulties.’
No it isn’t. It is simply another stall that has been modified to accommodate disabled people. The purpose of the stall isn’t to give disabled people cuts in line. The purpose is to put disabled people on equal footing in terms of toilet availability. If able bodied people are waiting 3 deep to shit, then disabled people should be as well.
