Should aggressive dog breeds be banned?

Great Debates
21

g, you’re right. I’m an adult.

I’m also an adult who has been around dogs of various sizes and temperments all her life, including the Great Dane up the street who was a sweetheart, and the Collie who lived with him who was absolutely vicious and who escaped about once a week, usually ending up in our garage until her owner came home and got her from us.

Because of this, I know better than to approach a dog showing obvious signs of hostility. I also know, and have known since I was about 8, not to meet the eyes of an agressive dog (since they’ll interpret that as a sign of hostility), and various other tricks to avoid an attack.

Look - education of a human, preventing an attack!

You also need to understand that I think anyone who keeps an obviously vicious dog like the one you’re talking about should be taken out and shot. The human, not the animal. The average household doesn’t need a guard dog, but a companion animal. Most dogs will protect their beloved owners without needing special training, because they believe we’re part of their pack.

And for crying out loud, g, I know what it’s like to feel threatened by a dog when you’re just walking by their fence. Trust me - the neighborhood I grew up in was incredibly “doggy,” and not a few of those dogs took my walking our dog as an offense to their territory. But if we’d met them on the street while walking odds are they wouldn’t have been nearly so vicious - we wouldn’t have been on their “turf,” as it were.

22

That first sentence should of course say that I’m an adult with no children.

Sigh.

More information is at the American Veterinary Medical Association

And from the [url"http://www.dogbitelaw.com/"]website of a guy who specializes in dog bite injuries:

23

I give up! No more posts while hung over! :wink:

Oh, and FWIW, I’m not a huge fan of pit bulls myself, but that’s a personal preference thing.

24

But Grienspace. Think for a moment. That vicious, terrifying, dangerous dog could be ANY BREED. It could be a “pit bull”. It could be a Rottweiler. It could be a Doberman. Or it could be a Dalmatian. Or it could be a Golden Retreiver. Or a Poodle. ANY breed of dog can be vicious if treated inhumanely. And ANY breed of dog can be safe if treated humanely. Breed has nothing to do with it. It is true that some breeds need more training than others. Any large dog is going to be more dangerous than a small dog. It doesn’t matter so much if a Yorkshire Terrier is a vicious, hateful creature, because even if it attacks you it can’t do that much damage. (An aside: in my opinion, toy dogs typically have the worst, most aggressive personalities. And the reason is that breeders don’t have to care about how aggressive these rat-dogs are.)

But you are ignoring the fact that all breeds can bite, all breeds can maul. “Dogs don’t maul, dog owners do,” would be a more accurate restatement. The only solution is to ban all dogs over a certain size, since all dogs can be trained to be aggressive.

No, it won’t be a solution, since these breeds are not inherently aggressive. They are large and strong. Any large and strong dog can be dangerous. The problem is not the breed, it is the individual dog and the individual owner. Any breed of dog can be a loving pet, and any breed of dog can be a vicious monster.

25

grienspace wrote:

That’s because in the case of guns, it happens to be true.

If we’re going to ban dogs, we ought to start with the dangerous-looking “assault dogs”, like the pit bull or rottweiler with the protruding pistol grip and folding stock. Then, we can go after the easily-concealable “hand dogs” like the Chihuahua. Remember, nobody needs a dog like that, so we should pre-emptively ban them all outright.

(This message paid for by Handdog Control, Inc…)

26

Avumede,

Personally,

I agree we should ban Pit Bulls. I hate those stupid dogs.

Why?

Well, when you see your wife laying in a Hospital ER with a blood bib on(that’s what it looked like) and her eye shut with blood squirting out of it because of what that devil dog did. It makes you hate the whole the species.

She knew this dog ever since it was a puppy. So one day when were visiting an aquantince(used to be a friend)she reached over to pet the dog and it bit down on her face right around the eye. She said it held on to her for about 20 seconds and it finally let go.

You wouldn’t know the fear I had when the doctor was trying to open her eye to see if it was still there. Well thank God it was. And after 400 stitches (both her eyelids had almost been ripped off and having two stints attaching her tear ducts back together) and months of nightmares waking her up with terrorizing screams and tears she is better now.

Well except she somebody looking weird at her left eye. That still bothers her. It has been about a year now and she is looking better everyday. And miraculously her scars are right where her eyelids hide them when her eyes are open so you can’t see them very well. I still think she is beautiful with eyes open or shut but her being a woman she worries about it.

I personally would vote not to wait until the breed dies off I say round em all up and shoot em now. They are nothing but devil dogs from Hell and that’s where they belong.

27

I own a pit bull. She’s the most lovable, cuddly pup I’ve ever had the pleasure of associating with. Thinks people are the greatest thing on the planet. Thinks other dogs are snack food.

I got her at six months, when she’d obviously been mistreated, and had been on the streets for some time. Took a while to get her to trust me, and took me some time to adjust to her. Fortunately, she got along with my German Shepherd.

I had to spend a lot of time, effort and money to dog-proof an area in the backyard where she can stay when I’m out during the day. (She stayed indoors until she ate three couches. I learn slow…) The area is away from the road, and well-fortified.

You see, I know she’s a dangerous dog. I’d hate to have anything happen to her, and know a lot of people love their dogs just as much as I love her. If I’m going to keep her, I have to keep her safely.

That being said, you would not believe how many times I’ve been out walking her (on a thick leather leash) and been attacked by other dogs whose owners just wanted to let their dogs run outside for a while. Always an exciting experience. She hasn’t hurt any of them, but has gotten some pretty bad scrapes.

Anyway, my take on the OP? Instead of banning the breed, maybe we should consider banning selling pit bulls for money, thereby eliminating some of the puppy mills out there. But more importantly, I think the laws in existence against dog-fighting need to be enforced better. You would not believe how many conversations I’ve had that went something like this…

Random Stranger:“That’s a good-looking dog.”
Me: “Thanks”
RS: “That a Pit Bull?”
Me: “Mostly, I think.”
RS: “You fight her?”
Insert expression of shocked disbelief here.

Does anyone know how prevalent dogfighting actually is? I’ve been asked this enough times to be convinced that for some people, dogfighting is just a fact of life. If this is going on, then eliminating it would seem to be the logical first step in reducing the number of aggressive dog breeds.

28

Bill, I am so sorry to hear about what happened to your wife, that is truly awful.

But I have to ask- would you be calling for the destruction of all Labradors if a Lab had mauled her? Or just the destruction of the offending animal? I would hope that the animal that mauled your wife was immediately put down.

It is not right to ascribe the shitty traits of a few mishandled animals to an entire breed. Bull terriers of various groups have gotten a really bad rap, and that might actually drive bad owners towards them.

And regarding the comment that “we didn’t have these problems 40 years ago”, I seem to remember Doberman Pinschers being the “vicious” dogs when I was growing up, and German Shepherds too. Whichever breed is popular at the moment will be maligned.

The larger dogs that I know tend to be more relaxed than the rat-dogs. I prefer a large dog in terms of temperment. Do you think I have a Newfoundland because I like spending a fortune on dog food and have to give him his own couch? Nope, it’s because he is 165 lbs of love and affection, and is decidedly mellow most of the time.

mrvisible, I understand what you’re saying, though many people won’t. You have got a big heart to love a dog that most people would simply put down. I assume that you are a very careful dog owner. How old is she now?

29

*** griens head suffers impact from dogsbody resulting in neuron flash***…I’ll bet if Bridgestone tires bought out a puppy mill and cornered the market on pit bulls, the lawsuits would have them chasing Chapter 11.

Okay, You have good credentials

I’m glad you managed to survive till you were eight, and have learned some good methods in order to mitigate the possibility of an attack. I’m still confused as to how I should respond to meeting with a bear, black or grizzly. For which one do I pretend to be dead? Fortunately, we do not allow people to keep them as pets. Sometimes a guy gets lucky by choosing the right response like I did once when faced with a pack of dogs intent on taking me down. I related the story in http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54018. I still think dog catchers should prevent free roaming dogs.

I agree

Sure, but how would you feel with two Rotweillers entering the street about a block away, no one else around you, and they are running full tilt straight at you. I had a similar situation with Dobermans when I was young but fortunately there was a brave man beside me who responded aggressively deterring the attack.I have had too many close calls in my life, mostly from viscious dogs and I don’t believe there is any justification for the terror millions of people undergo because of them.

30

I would like to see a cite for this statement - I’ve heard it several times recently, but my breeder contacts (of several breeds) say this just isn’t possible. Anyone got a reputable source?
-mdf

31

There are two important factors which cause certain dogs to be aggressive.

Owners play a large role in how a dog behaves. It would be great if everyone who had a dog would want to be a responsible owner, but hell, if you can’t get people to take care of their kids properly how are you going to get them to treat their dogs any better? Do you really think someone with a dog they use for fighting really wants to take doggie training courses? Of course not, the whole point is to have a bad-ass dog. To a lot of people, their dogs are just livestock. If it dies, toss it out and get another one.

The other factor is breeding, plain and simple. Dogs (and cats) have been bred in so many ways, their genetics have gone through unbelievable manipulation. They can be bred for work, for protection, for sport. If you can breed a Ragdoll cat to be docile and floppy, then doesn’t it make sense that certain dogs can be bred to be inherently aggressive? Even if they’re super-cute, you can’t totally control an animal. If it really wants to run, jump, or bite, there’s not a whole lot you can do. Training and obedience can only do so much and leashes and fences can be broken, after that, you’re dealing with an animal’s nature. It just doesn’t make sense to own a dog that’s known to be bred to react aggressively, especially when they’re such proficient killers. If a Jack Russell Terrier attacks, it’ll hurt, but it’s easy enough to get him away. With a dog whose jaws lock or who are made up of potentially hundreds of pounds of muscle, people (kids especially) have no chance against them. I really think these dogs should be phased out.

I’m not saying to round them up and kill them, but they shouldn’t be bred any more. There’s just no reason for these “land sharks” to be left in the wrong hands. With so many irresponsible people out there, I think it would be better for people and the dogs themselves. And no, I’m not saying we also should cease the manufacturing of irons because you could drop one on your foot or some such nonsense. Irons don’t escape from the yard and attack people. For that matter, neither do guns. We’re dealing with nature here, and as we all know, you just can’t control nature.

32

Bill, thankyou for sharing your experience with us. Out of this small community of 12,000 people (active membership probably much less) we have an example of what this debate is all about. How many people have to suffer before we do something effective about this problem?

And please anybody, don’t say the solution is being trained in the handling of Pit Bulls !

33

The solution is being trained in the handling of Pit Bulls.

<ducking and running>

34

Grienspace:

OK, suppose you are appointed Pit Bull Czar of Canada. Please give the text of the law that bans pit bulls. It’s easy enough to say, “Pit Bulls will be banned”. But what does that mean? How do you tell which dogs are “pit bulls” and which aren’t?

It’s like defining an “assault rifle”, like the Brady Bill here in the US. What it means is that you can have two identical rifles, the only difference is that one has a black plastic stock and the other has a wooden stock, and one is illegal and one is legal.

The point is that “pit bull” is not an actual breed of dog. There are dogs that are called “pit bulls” but that has nothing to do with their breeding, only their appearance.

If you want to pass a law that all vicious dogs must be euthanized, I’ll agree, except we allready have such a law. The trouble is identifying the vicious dogs. Currently the only way to identify vicious dogs is when they cause a problem, like attacking a person or other dog. But banning a breed won’t eliminate vicious dogs.

It comes down to this. As Pit Bull Czar, you come to my house to inspect my dog. He’s short haired, stocky, muscular, large-headed, and friendly. How do you tell if he’s a pit bull or not? If his parents were registered pit bulls, then you could say he’s a pit bull, but what if there are no records of his parentage? HOW CAN YOU WRITE A LAW THAT DISTINGUISHES PIT BULLS FROM OTHER DOGS? It is my contention that there is no such thing as a pit bull “breed”, since pit bulls are not purebred, but rather mongrels.

Of course all our other breeds started the same way. But nowadays you can’t call your dog a “Golden Retriever” unless it had Golden Retriever parents. But pit bull is descriptive term, not a breeding term.

The point is, you find an animal that you think is a pit bull and want to seize and destroy. However, the owner claims the dog is not a pit bull. How do you get a court to decide the dog really is a pit bull?

35

Certainly we do not live in a perfect world, and any solution to the mauling epedemic we are seeing today can not be addressed to perfection. But considering the difficulty of changing people’s behavior (like the war on drugs), I submit a pragmatic and drastic solution is warranted for a drastic problem. There is no other solution that will immediately cut down the incidence of mauling than euthanasia of Pit Bulls.

I agree, and suggest that every dog can make fine pet. In fact it would take severe abuse to have a dog turn on its owner.

But put any dog in a pack and you might find something you don’t like about your pet. Dog sled owners know full well that if the team is on the trek and hungry, the team has been known to kill the owner. Its like mob rule, and individual dog morality can go out the window. Fortunately in this case we can control dog packs through the canine control unit, which has been very effective in the cities.

Unfortunately, some dogs just snap for no apparent reason at all, and that just seems to happen a whole lot more with Pit Bulls. They don’t have human rights, so lets get rid of the lot of them.

By the way, my brother owned a Bull Terrier, a beautiful, friendly dog that shares the lock jaw syndrome of the Pit Bull. They are also scarier looking and so stupid that you just can’t seem to reason with them. They get into some activities so focused that you could cut there hind leg off and they won’t notice. He would play with this dog by allowing it to grab one end of the towel and he would swing the dog around and around in the air. One day Luke broke free in a park with leash trailing and ran down this 18 month old boy about two hundred yards away with my brother and me chasing. Luke knocked the boy down and fortunately licked the boys face. If that boy was a dog that boy would be dead. The horror of the mother screaming who was about 30 feet away during the run down, has left me with with the feeling no matter what, we should not require people to suffer that terror.

36

I agree with you Lemur866 that regulation sucks but then tell that to the electricity consumers of California. I couldn’t presume to author a reasonable draft for a bill, but a reasonable approach would be to enlist the anti Pit Bull side to fund legal help in drafting a bill which I would subsequently submit to the Pit Bull lovers for amendments that could convince the other side that a more limited approach could be warranted. That is I would enlist the experts in Pit Bulls to help identify those dogs that should be subject to elimination.

As per my above comment, I would use the Pit Bull lovers to provide me with the means for identification.

I would use legislation drafted as per above to assist in the identification. Perhaps in this case the owner may have some time to prove his dog does not have the genetic marker for pit bulls.

37

Wanting to destoy something because it scares you is about as ignorant as you can possibly get.

38

Well, people are scared of them because they have a history of attacking people. They have been bred for hundreds of years and they’ve become dangerous.

Letting people own these dogs and either mishandling them or denying that they are a threat is not a great approach either.

39

Look.

Banning Pit Bulls Will Not Solve The Problem!

Another breed will become popular with the type of idiot who wants a dog strictly based on it’s “mean” reputation. Then, we’ll hear nothing but how that particular breed is a vicious monster, and all of them should be put down.

As has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread, when I was growing up (in the 1970’s) Doberman Pincers and German Shepherds had exactly the same reputation as pit bulls have now. Rotweillers are starting to have the same reputation, though enough Rotty lovers are speaking up loudly about their pets that the image is countered somewhat in the media. Ten years from now, Chow-Chows and Portugese Water Dogs may be the nasty dog of the year.

The problem isn’t the breed of dog. It’s the morons who want a “vicious animal” and then abuse/mistreat them so they have exactly what they want.

And don’t get me started on the subject of puppy mills.

Grienspace, ;), I was chased down the street by a terrier with no will to live once*. I had to separate my parents’ mongrel Dalmatian from a loose German Shephard by beating the Shephard (who had initiated the problem) off with the Dalmatian’s leash. We once had to pull the Collie I mentioned before off the neighbor’s cat. (I still think the cat would have won that one, but none of us wanted either animal to get hurt.) I can imagine what you felt like with the two Rotweillers, but what I want to know is where were their owners?

WB, I’m sorry that happened to your wife, and tell her I said I’m sure she looks just fine. My roommate has also been attacked by dogs - she’s told me what breeds, but I don’t remember off the top of my head - and she has a lingering fear of them as well.

40

I feel as though I should clarify the terrier comment. I was walking my parents’ Dalmatian mix, and the terrier came charging down the hill after us. I heard it yapping as we were reaching my front door, and turned around to face it. The Dalmatian, mild-mannered and cowardly creature that she was, promptly hid behind my legs, leaving me to growl at it myself.

I was not running from it.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.