Should aggressive dog breeds be banned?

Look, the real answer is identifying problem owners, rather than problem dogs. If you want more strict rules on how dogs are kept, and what constitutes animal cruelty, I’m there. If you want to make a law that considers it animal cruelty to train a dog to attack (except for licensed animal trainers, police, military and such), I’ll go for that. I agree, keeping a dog that’s trained to attack is like keeping a pet cougar or bear. However.

Banning the breed simply sweeps the problem under the rug. If we ban pit bulls, we have to ban Rottweilers. Ban Rottweilers and we have to ban Dobermans. Ban Dobermans and we have to ban German Shepards. It makes no sense to ban a breed. If you want mandatory sterilization of dogs with certain characteristics, that might be doable. And if it just so happened that most dogs classified as pit bulls had those characteristics, fine. But you admit that you have no idea what those characteristics would be.

And besides, everyone knows that this will not be a nation-wide effort. So we’ll have some states, provinces, and cities where the breed is banned, but others where they are not. There is no federal animal control outfit, these are all controlled by cities and counties (do you call them counties up in Canada?).

And if you are serious about eliminating the threat of dog attacks no matter what the cost, then all dogs over 20 pounds should be euthanized. Obviously, we have to count the costs. Even you wouldn’t advocate exterminating all dogs. But that is the only way to eliminate the threat of dog attacks. So rather than talking about eliminating the risk of dog attacks, let’s talk about reducing the risk.

Well, I may as well hang a few feet of linked sausages around my neck and yell “Here Cujo!”, because there will ALWAYS be stupid and irresponsible people owning pets and there’s NO WAY to keep them under any type of regulation. We can’t even force people not to beat their kids.

If you ban them, people will be breeding them out of there homes and boy howdy, let the inbreeding begin! Then we’ll really have some raving monsters on our hands. They’ve basically been bred by humans to be that way in the first place, so we must accept them as they are. :rolleyes

So rest assured, you’ll be allowed to have your precious, snarling, drooling pooches until they’ve eaten every last one of us. (OK, I know that was a bit exessive - about them eating all of us - but it sort of made me laugh in a dark way). But it still doesn’t make me feel any better when I hear stories about kids being chased up a tree by a pack of vicious house pets, and when one of them climbs down to see if the coast is clear, gets his scalp torn from his head in front of his little brother. But I guess it’s worth it so you can cuddle up with the dog of your choice.

My neighbor has a pit breed that he breeds from time to time. It listens to him, but is the nosiest, nastiest dog on the block. It tried to get me twice before it dawned on him to fence the dog in if he did not want it on a leash. It came into my yard after me.

I told him, not real politely, that if I got bit, I’d sue his ass and probably kill the dog.

I used to be a delivery guy and pit bulls, no matter what anyone says, were the biggest hazard. They ranged from coming up all friendly like and suddenly turning nasty to charging full force from around the house in full attack mode. I don’t care if the dog can be tamed into the sweetest personality ever observed, it is bred to fight and for aggressive attitudes.

There have been more than a few incidents of the family pit, which lovingly doted over the family wet diaper, suddenly rip a callers arm nearly off or attack and kill the neighbors little Scottie because it barked at it, charged and mauled a walkers little leashed pup and mauled the owner trying to save his or her precious dog.

Yeah. Certain breeds should be Xed out.

A couple of people I know bough Alaskan huskies, cross bred with wolves because of their beauty, loyalty, durability and determination. The things ate up any other dogs already owned by these folks, attacked neighbors pets, went after kids and adults, but the breed is still being produced.

I’m not all that into breeders anyhow, having become aware of the hundreds of inbred diseases affecting these animals, like the pug having breathing problems because of the short snout, the Dachshund gets chronic spinal problems, the Schitzu has irritating skin allergies to nearly everything, the Collie has nearly had its brains bred out through its narrow skull, miniature poodles are chronic nervous wrecks and the low rider Basset Hound often drags it’s belly and has legs too short to make it able to survive in the wilds.

The Pit was bred only to kill and to be aggressive. Even the bulldog, designed to handle cattle, is not as insanely aggressive, though it’s crunched up face gives it nasal breathing problems. Even the boxer and the German shepherd are not as uncontrollably violent as the pit. Dobermans come close, but are not as unpredictable.

Humans created the line. Humans should end it. After all, humans are real good at exterminating whole species, so doing this should be no problem.

EXCATLY!! (sorry for the “me too” post, but I meant to say something to that effect in my last post and I forgot)

These dogs do not exist in nature. They are engineered. Pure breds in general are so inbred that they’re prone to all sorts of weirdness. Your best bet is a good old-fashioned mutt if you want a real pal.

I made a couple of calls, and my earlier post was incorrect.

There have been no formal studies of the jaw physiology of Pit Bulls. What specimens have been examined are normal, save for exagerated musculature.

For whatever reason, some dogs of this breed are instinctually incapable of releasing their grip in some circumstances. Breeders at kennels use a “breaking bar,” basically a pry bar, to seperate fighting dogs.

So, while the locking mechanism is a myth, the phenomenom is real.

Sorry about your wall, you must have a hard head:slight_smile:

I may be incorrect, but my perception is that many of the Pit Bull owners involved in these trajedies are decent people who by virtue of the friendliness of their pet are lulled into complacency. The idiots you are referring to are more likely to abuse and better confine their dogs in secure cages.not exactly what any of us want.

In the 60s, I was given a German Shephard puppy. I had the choice of the litter. That dog was my peace of mind when I cycled past all kinds of dogs as a paper boy. Never hurt anybody. Sure there were viscious German Shepherds then, but they were the junk yard dogs which were clearly mistreated, but also kept quite secure. Dog maulings were unheard of. Then the Dobermans, became popular and they were scarier all right,but even in the seventies, I did not hear of any maulings.Then the Rotweillers came along and I can only suggest that anyone who owns one has no empathy for others. Finally an explosion of Pit Bull maulings occurred that bears no resemblance to the situation in the past, and I can only surmise that the hardcore idiot who used to have one for fighting but could at least secure the Pit Bull, gave way to the average guy who assumed that if you treat your dog with kindness you will have a kind dog.Therein lies the problem, the sudden unforseen transformation of the dog’s character along with the means to destroy.

Actually it was two dobermans, who escaped from their pen. But that was nothing compared to the dog pack that tried to kill me. Did you click the link I provided?

To all those who suggest that banning one breed will lead to a never ending banning problem must realize that there never was a serious problem until the Pit Bull. German Shepherds were so popular for so long that even the English during the war and subsequently, rather than give up the breed bearing the enemy’s name renamed it to Alsation. Why is it only a recent problem? Like wolves, pit bulls do not make reliable pets.

What a fascinating debate. A microcosm, if you will, of prejudice in general.

On one side, people advocating reasonable legislation promoting responsibility, and a gradual solution to the problem.

On the other, the rhetoric of fear and hatred. “Some of them are bad. They all should die.”

And in the middle, my loveable little pit bull, Gracie. Known around here as “The Pit Bull of Love”.

I didn’t buy her. I wasn’t looking for another dog. I rescued her from a bad situation, where she was being abused, and may well have become one of the ravenous beasts being ranted about here. I couldn’t take her to the pound; chances of her being put down were about a hundred per cent. So I took her to the vet, got her checked out, got her shots. As soon as she was old enough, I got her spayed.

She’s become a loving, goofy animal, eager to play, with a real love of peanut butter dog biscuits and re-enacting scenes from the Discovery Channel in front of the TV with my other dog, Bones.

I know she’s dangerous to other dogs. Her dog run is reinforced with 2x4’s and heavy wire fencing, and I check for possible escape routes every day. She’s never gotten out. She needs a lot more attention than other breeds of dogs. It’s my duty to make sure that I take that into account. It’s a responsibility I accept gladly, as she’s the sweetest dog I’ve ever met.

Killing her, just for being a pit bull, never having harmed anyone, is immoral. If not everyone is as responsible a dog owner as I am, then by all means, take the dogs away from them. There are rescue associations, humane societies, and humane humans capable of giving the dogs the care they need. If need be, if an individual dog is beyond help, they may have to be euthanized.

But to speak of taking a dog who has never done any wrong away from a responsible owner, just because some other similar dogs have gone mad, is horrific. Arbitrary, unthinking, reflexive, neanderthal vengeance reflexes overcoming rational thought processes yet again.

Besides which, if you try and come kill my pit bull, I’ll sic my German Shepherd on you. He’s much meaner.

I can understand wanting to ban poodles, though. MAN, those dogs are mean.

Tracer, poodles aren’t so bad. My mom had a great one when she was young. And my neighbors have one who looks pretty sweet.

I think the point here that some people are making is that no matter the dog, it can be dangerous. I’ve read this book on dogs, The Truth About Dogs- I’ve forgotten the author’s name, in which the author states that spaniels are very common biters. The thing is, any dog can bite. Labrodaurs and golden retrievers are said to be great dogs with good temparaments, and that may well be but temperament only goes so far. The onus is on the owner to socialize the dog and whatnot.

The thing with Pit Bulls is they are bred TO fight…you guys have said they seem to attack other dogs with little provocation. I don’t see why one would want a pit bull. If you need a guard/watch dog, there are plenty of other breeds.

Also I too wondered how you’d go about effecting the ban. Sterilize them all? Kill the existing ones? Eliminating an entire breed sounds hard.

Please, whatever you do, do not buy labrodaurs, or any of these new dog/dinosaur hybrids. Genetic engineering is still too new a science to produce reliable companion animals. Sure, the little scaly things may be cute when they’re just barely out of the egg, but what happens when they grow to colossal size and start tearing apart movie sets?

Don’t be a part of supporting this industry.

Thank you.

:slight_smile:

I hope your Pit Bull is not the one of the 16 Pit Bulls it takes to result in hospital treatment.Here is a site where a 14 month old kid was attacked by one of two family Pit Bulls.( http://www.abcnews.go.com/local/kabc/news/23084_311999.html ) What do you do when your kid is screaming and your Pit Bull won’t unlock from his face. Is there a technique you should be aware of? This family was so overwrought by the incident, they had no choice but to destroy their other sweet and lovely pet.Once bitten twice shy. It is the nature of pit bulls to be unpredictable. Dan Knapp of L.A. Animal Services says they were bred not to warn.

You’ve done good

As a dog owner knowing full well the abilities dogs have for escape I don’t find the description of your dog run encouraging. If you have to check every day for escape routes, then it will happen. Should be a 6 foot high chain link fence with some barrier for digging under the fencing. I should hope that my insurance would cover any negative result from an escape. Such a run you have would describe the pen a German Shepherd of mine escaped from running down an ewe and costing me $300.00.

I believe other nations have implemented full sterilization programs rather than putting all pit bulls down. Though it is inevitable that some kid or kids will be maimed or die due to the delay in extermination it will be a small price to pay I suppose.By the way, your German Shepherd is notorious for** shallow** reactive bites no doubt inherited from shepherding duties.

Now I’ve been reading a lot of sites on Pit Bulls, overwhelmingly defending the breed but providing very little in hard facts. There does not seem to be any national organization beating the drum against pit bulls, and the issue is fought in city councils across North America with very little funding. I have found one site from animal people on linehttp://www.animalpeoplenews.org/haydenLaw1100.html … where retired Professor l. Robert Plumb of Chico St University in January 1999 provided the following statistics.

No. of Dogs Per Bite Serious Enough To Result In Hospital Treatment

16…Pit Bull
156…German Shepherd
174…Spaniels(all types)
296…doberman
433…small terriers

Even I am surprised by these figures!

Oh, like Christian Conservatives?

Sorry for the snide comment but this thread makes me angry and it also sickens me. I cannot believe that on a board dedicated to fighting ignorance we have supposedly intelligent people advocating the mass killing of entire breed of creatures because some of them are dangerous and scary.

Wildest Bill, I am truly sorry about what happened to your wife and you have every right to be angry but to advocate the killing of all dogs of the offending type is truly pathetic.

If my kid is killed by a Hispanic woman driving a Mercedes, I don’t foam at the mouth wanting all Hispanics killed, or all women killed or all Mercedes destroyed. If 20 kids are killed by Hispanic women driving Mercedes we still don’t advocate the destruction of each of these things.

What we do is examine the situation to uncover why this keeps happening and go about changing anything we can that will help. This is where suggestions of licensing Pit Bull owners only after training comes from. This is where we suggest that certain restrictions be placed on the boarding and tethering of such animals. This is where we try to remedy the problem without destroying it because we can’t be bothered to regulate it.

Over the top examples? Yes, but no more ridiculous than the asinine suggestions to euthanize all dogs that resemble certain breeds.

Thank ya’ll for your concern and sympathy about what happened to my wife. It was one of the most awful experiences of my life.

I thought about this debate last night driving home. To be fair if you don’t want to go out and kill everyone of these dogs, then they should be treated like a lion or a tiger. Inotherwords the same rules that apply to those type animals should be applied to pit pulls. Specials permits, cages and high dollar insurance. I am all for having freedoms but if you want to have a dangerous animal then you should have protect the general public from it.

If this has already been brought up, I apologize.(kinda busy didn’t have time to read the whole thread)

Hispanic women were not bred by humans over the ages to be aggressive. Humans created the personality of these types of dogs through selective breeding. We’ve done it with all animals. Every breed of dog and cat (and cow, and sheep, etc . . . I suppose) have had their ancestors chosen for certain traits, be it for their looks, strength, or temperment. There are a lot of animals running around that don’t exactly occur in nature. Along with creating critters that are gentle and mellow or playful and athletic, we’ve created animals that are aggressive fighters. Of course they don’t attack all the time, but they’re more likely to cause more damage because that’s what they were made to do. Humans treated these animals with extreme disrespect by breeding them this way. I’m not blaming the dogs themselves, they’re just doing what comes naturally to them. But I think people need to take responsibility and admit that not everything we create is right.

Frankly, I think it’s bizarre to compare this issue to racism or biggotry.

As mrvisible explained, it takes very special precautions to protect the general public from these kinds of dogs. I think it’s great that he’s willing to put so much time, effort and love into caring for his dog, but honestly, how can you force people to act responsibly? A large percentage of pet owners take wonderful care of their pets, treat them like royalty even. These typically aren’t the people we have to worry about. It’s people who treat their pets badly or don’t want to spend lots of time or money erecting fences and super strong restraints for their pets - pets that they’ve probably chosen because they’re aggressive, either for protection, status, or fighting for sport. If only we could educate the general public on the “right thing to do” and have them all listen, but we haven’t been able to do it before, what makes anyone think we can do it now? Licensing people to own Pit Bulls (or any aggressive dog) is a great idea, but how do you get people to comply? You can’t. How do you convince someone to spend a lot of money boarding and tethering their animals. You can’t.

There will never be a solution to this problem as long as people keep wanting dangerous pets. Even if they’re banned, people will still get them. People want what they want, even if it’s selfish and dangerous, and you’ll never be able to change that. This isn’t even that huge of a problem, but it’s yet another disaster waiting to happen because of stubborn people. It’s just a small tragedy in a sea of greater ones that could be stopped, but it won’t.

And FWIW, I don’t think these dogs should be exterminated, I think they should be sterilized and not allowed to breed any more. I’m an animal lover to the core, but if an animal is dangerous to humans or other animals, I’m going to have to side with the prey on this one.

What a stunningly insightful argument.:rolleyes:

After y’all are through slaughtering dogs, please off yourselves, you scare me. It’s ok though, because humans created your line.

I’ll say it again, because it obviously didn’t sink in: wanting to kill or destroy something because it scares you is the most ignorant thing you could possibly do.

Pit bulls may have a tendancy to be a dangerous breed, but not all of them are dangerous. Making the owners more responsible for the damage an untrained or insane dog (not just pit bulls) inflicts is what will reduce the rate that people are bitten. I’m not talking civil fines or suites, I’m talking criminal punishment.

Put the blame where it belongs. People these days seem to have an exceedingly hard time doing that.

Dogs don’t care if their masters are going to jail because of their actions. If a dog is going to escape, it doesn’t think “Hmmm, how will this affect the hand that feeds me?” You can make people more responsible for their dogs, but you can’t control an animal 100% of the time. Accidents happen, they could escape in a second if you’re not looking. Or even if you are looking. They could attack someone considered friendly without warning. Why wait until the damamge is done to do something? Besides, the world is FULL of irresponsible people who aren’t going to follow the rules. And when it’s their turn to face their punishment, they’ll be complaining that THEY didn’t train the dog to attack animals or people, it’s not THEIR fault that the dog went haywire, blame the breeder . . . blah blah blah.

Maybe people should deprive themselves of the pleasure of having a potentially dangerous pet instead of marching around screaming about how it’s their right to have one. It certainly is your right, but how about taking some personal resposibility in the choices you make that could affect people around you. Perhaps part of the problem is that people don’t want to sacrifice a single if they imagine it will make them happy, even if it’s at the cost of an innocent bystander. It’s a sad and selfish thing.

Why would someone want a pet that could potentially land them in jail in the first place? People have been tossed in the slammer for the actions of their aggressive dogs in the past. Aren’t there other breeds that would be just as lovable without such a great risk of injury? I know all animals have the potential to bite or attack, but why get one that is bred to do so. I just don’t get it. If people are getting them just to prove some kind of point about fairness and judging all creatures equally, that’s just kind of weird.

I don’t think that they should be banned but I do think that some breeders should have their heads examined.

The owner should be held responsible for their dogs actions.
Also see statement above

My daughter was bitten in the face by the neighbors dog when she was 5years old. It left scars but now you hardly notice them. There is a tiny nick in her nose and a sizeable scar,about 1 inch on her right eye brow.She is a seventh grade basketball cheerleader and has no social problems because of it.Actually her grades would be better if she were a little less social.

I’d still like to kill the dog but it probably was more her fault than the dogs.

If we’re going for extreem legislation, then how about just sticking with something like…

No dog (any breed) may be bred by anyone other than a licensed breeder, with certified credentials from a major breed registry ala the AKC?

No dog may be sold to someone who is not a breeder without first spaying/neutering the dog?

Has there been any study on the effect of early spay/neuter on dogs? I know in felines, studys have shown negligable effect from altering kittens as early as 10 weeks of age.

If that were enforable, and everyone had to keep papers on their dog, then those instances where a dog attacks could be traced to the breeder and their license reviewed.

It would cost an arm and a leg, and there would still be some backyard breeders slipping through the cracks, but it would have a treendous positive effect on the overall problem.

-Doug

But it’s OK if we just want to eat them, right?

You, evilbeth and mrvisible are putting forth some weird ethical positions here.

Why is slaughtering dogs that threaten humans any different from slaughtering cows for food?

Is the reason dogs are more deserving of ethical consideration based on any trait dogs have that separates them morally from any other animal, or is it based on your preference for dogs?

The blame is squarely on your shoulders, as it is for almost all of us. You’re butting heads here because humans have inconsistent ethical attitudes about animals. We elevate some species and treat others like trash, and the sole criterion is how they best serve human beings- alive or dead or whatever.

There is no ethical argument you can make for treating dogs humanely that wouldn’t also apply to, say, cows. If you’re not ready to go there, be prepared to live with people who put dogs in the “vermin to shoot on sight” category instead of the “pet” category, because the fallback category for deciding how to treat animals after “Do they suffer?” is “Do I like them?” and unlike “Do they suffer?” that question is totally arbitrary, and people aren’t going to agree on it.

-fh

Oops. "because the fallback category for deciding how to treat animals after “Do they suffer?” should read "because the fallback for deciding how to treat animals after "Do they suffer?"

Sorry!
-fh