A recent bombing by the insurgents has once again got Iraqis pissed off at the Americans for their inability to squash the spate of terror. They blame the Americans and not the insurgents for the loss of life. There appears to be not one ounce of gratitude for the suffering that their “liberation” has wrought on countless American families, and very little evidence that they are willing as a people to rise up against their tormentors and help.
I say reinstall Hussein and whats left of his government. He’s proven he knows how to bring peace to the region. Now that we know that Iraqis are indeed capable of a viable insurgency without the help of Americans, we need not feel as some of us did before that these people need American help to liberate themselves. Indeed, I strongly suspect that a return of Hussein will bring peace to Iraq.
If this isn’t a whoosh, this seems to indicate a fundamental lack of understanding of human nature. Sure, overthrow the murderous dictator, but if you’re going to restore peace, then build a goddamned nation and do it properly.
Here’s on reason why ‘they’re’ not ‘grateful’, in the words of Col. Tim Collins OBE, the man who gave the inspirational eve-of-battle speech that GWB had on the wall of the Oval Office in the first days of the war.
I give you a paraphrased recollection of the words of Salam Pax, posted to his blog opposing invasion, just before the war began: “Sure, we want democracy, but we’re not suicidal”.
Hussein was ghastly, the poverty caused by his greed and mismanagement and the UN sanctions were awful, and his political opponents lived in fear of their lives, but there weren’t daily terrorist attacks. Ever lived in a country where terrorism happens on a daily or weekly basis? It’s pretty damned difficult, indeed well-nigh impossible, to “rise up against [you] tormentors” when they’re terrorists.
Whoosh. The OP appears to be suggesting that criticism of our misadventure in Iraq is misguided because the alternative would be Saddam Hussein retaining control of the country. See, if you’re against the war, then you’re for Saddam. Much like if you’re against Bush, then you’re for another 9/11.
Why should they be grateful for another country illegally invading their own and slaughtering them by the tens of thousands? We’ve killed their children, their parents, their grandmothers, their spouses and their pets. Why the motherfuck should they be grateful? As for suffering caused to American families- how is that the fault of the Iraqis? How did it even help the Iraqis? Blame the people who sent those soldiers over there. The fact that Bush has destroyed so many American lives is not a reason for the Iraqis to be grateful. They didn’t exactly invite us. The suggestion that they should be grateful is the kind of stupid, uncomprehending, self-centered, quintessentially American, self-worshipping arrogance that causes the rest of the world to despise us.
They’re doing it right now…the “tormentors” are us.
Grateful? My god, your arrogance is astounding. IMO, they’re pissed at exactly the right people about how their country is being run and the amount of security they don’t have today. We removed an evil, brutal, murderous dictator and replaced it with bedlam, anarchy, murder, and a civil/religious war.
When has a country been invaded where the populace didn’t rise up against the invaders?
Maybe…maybe in very clear cut cases of liberation, the invaders were welcomed, but invading a country usually = some underground movement against the invaders.
I suppose if invading a country is never an option, then no UN Council or anybody could ever threaten any country with action.
Underground movement? Hating Americans ain’t no fucking underground movement over there, it’s a way of life. It’s the very thinking like yours (it’s only a few of them hate us :rolleyes: ) that’s allowing us to get our clocks cleaned over there.
We need to change our thinking and actions and base them on the reality that people want us the hell out now.
It’s just like this guy who lives a couple houses down from me. One of his trees had a bee hive in it. I warned him that bees were dangerous and for all he knew everyone in the neighborhood could be allergic to bee stings. He was completely insane about it: “why not go get tested for allergies if you’re worried?” he kept saying. There was no time for that! The bees could strike at any moment! Instead, I did what any sensible neighbor would do – I knocked down his fence, cut down the tree and set it on fire. It accidentally fell on his house, caving in his roof and killing his daughter. Then, when I set the tree on fire, the fire somehow spread to the house, burning it to the ground. I explained that I hadn’t meant to kill his daughter or burn down his house, and what exactly were they doing in the middle of a bee-exterminating zone anyway? Punching his grandma was a regrettable necessity, as she was getting really uppity and ruining my concentration. He refused to listen to reason.
What’s worse, have I received so much as a thank you, either from him or the other neighbors? No! All I hear is “the bees weren’t hurting you” and “now all the bees are in my yard”. They totally ignore the fact that I liberated their dog (who unfortunately got run over by a car). Ungrateful bastards. I’m starting to think I should just find another bee hive and leave it on their smouldering foundation so we can forget this whole thing ever happened.
So to sum up, the Iraqi people were incapable of getting rid of Hussein themselves. So we should knock Hussein down, really piss off the country, then put him back in power. Then we’ll get to see if the insurgents are as good at fucking things up when there is a ruthless dictator in power as they are when there are the namby-pamby coalition forces who care about crap like “civilian casualties”. I note a conflict between Saddam’s ability to keep order and population which has now proven it can fight back against those who are trying to keep order.
So who are we rooting for? Are we rooting for Saddam to re-establish his brutal hold on the country and fill some more mass graves? Or are we rooting for the insurgents to overthrow him and then fight among themselves to see who will take his place(more mass graves)?
The Vietnam War was from 1959 to 1975. Some notable events from Saddam Hussein’s life during that period. He got involved in politics in 1957, a beneficiary of some nepotism because he had an uncle who was a party mover and shaker. In 1964 he spent some time imprisoned by a anti-Baath party which was in power. I don’t know if they used tiger cages or not. He escaped in 1967 and was once again the beneficiary of nepotism as his relative General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr took Baath party leadership and in a coup in 1968 the party siezed power in Iraq. Saddam was made Vice-President and kept himself in the shadows, although he was generally the primary decision-maker. In 1973 the Baath party defeated a coup attempt and re-wrote some rules to give themselves some more warmaking power. This left a stupid amount of unilateral power in the hands of Hussein, who then used it as he saw fit, foregoing the established processes and his own advisors and cabinet.
