Oh, I get it. The country has been taken over by Republican criminals. The President of the United States has literally encouraged, on three occasions that I’ve noticed (and I don’t pay that much attention) the “uneducated voters” he loves so much to apply violence to improve GOP electoral results. But you guys want to divert attention to some tiny number of violent acts committed by non-Trumpists.
The conduct of Republicans and Trumpists is ten times as egregious and violent as the rest of the nation put together. What-aboutism is what you guys do:
"President Trump encouraged violence? What about some anonymous thug marching with the anti-Nazi protesters who encouraged violence? Same-same, no? We’ve got Trump, You’ve got John Doe. What about it? Tu quoque. What about it, hunh?
That’s what “what-aboutism” is. What I’m doing isn’t “what-aboutism.” It’s called “restoration of sanity.”
So tell me what your answer is. Are the anti-WBC “Angels” counter-protestors being “bad guys” when they deliberately hide the signs of the WBC protestors from being seen near funerals, thus effectively blocking the WBC protestors’ free expression of their speech, or are they not?
If this is such a simple issue, then you ought to be able to give a direct answer about this particular application of it.
So far, your weaseling and ducking on this question suggests that it’s dawning on you that your grossly sweeping generalizations condemning all attempts (even legal ones) to “shut down or silence opposing viewpoints” or “block the free expression of speech” logically imply that the anti-WBC “Angels” are being “bad guys” by your criteria.
But you don’t think it’s a good look to apply the term “bad guys” to a bunch of peaceful counter-protestors legally blocking the sight of the hateful signs of protestors announcing to the funeral mourners that their loved one is burning in hell etc., so instead you just refuse to answer the question.
What is it that “antifa” did when they “went after” Ben Shapiro?
Did they send death threats? Are they stalking him?
Or did they protest once, when he was at Berkeley?
You don’t understand what the alt-right is. The alt-right isn’t just Nazis. It isn’t just about white-supremacy. Its a loose association. There is no membership form. Goobergate and comicsgate are alt-right. People that believe the democrats are secret-human-traffickers hiding behind pizza-outlets are alt-right. I believe Milo Yiannopoulos is racist even though he is married to a black man. And Ben Shapiro is alt-right. Even though he is an Orthodox Jew.
And this is a problem?
How is it a problem?
Have they?
How big is Antifa exactly? How many things has this group actually “shut down?”
I’m not seeing the problem.
Do you want to ban hyperbole?
People are gonna do what they wanna do and say what they wanna say. What do you propose we do about this?
In reality we have a government that is using the thinking and action and methodology of a country like North Korea. The United States Government broadcasts lies on a daily basis. The President of the United States tells on average 7 lies a day. Its propaganda. And it is a significantly more of a problem to the future of the United States than a handful of protesters that broke a few windows back in 2017.
Lets accept this is true.
In a country the size of the United States: is a handful of people with no real voice or standing a problem?
Is Antifa a bigger problem than goobergate? Which group has caused more heartache, grief and destruction?
“Identity politics is just Marxism in a new wrapper.”
LOL.
ME: “I think we should move to close the gender pay gap.”
[/quote]
So far, your weaseling and ducking on this question suggests that it’s dawning on you that your grossly sweeping generalizations condemning all attempts (even legal ones) to “shut down or silence opposing viewpoints” or “block the free expression of speech” logically imply that the anti-WBC “Angels” are being “bad guys” by your criteria.
[/quote]
Not at all. The WBC are bad guys for trying to disrupt a funeral. It may be constitutionally protected speech, but they are still bad guys. To be a bad guy you don’t have to break the law. Anything bad that comes fro the WBC protests is on them.
No. I’ve answered the question several times. You are just not very good at understanding. Probably it’s all the kvetching your doing distracting you.
Yes. 600 police were needed to keep it contained, but they still broke into the auditorium (which had been moved from its original location because of the protests and disrupted the program. He received death threats.
If you think Ben Shapiro is part of the alt right, it’s you that are clueless. He is one of their targets
Big time.
Free speech being one of the fundamental rights that protect our society, when you take it away, you remove our freedom.
[quoteHave they?[/quote)
Yes.
Big enough to shut down Shapiro and require 600 police. They’ve shut down quite a bit “no platform for fascists” is their guiding ethic according to Mark Bray who wrote 5heir handbook. There basic principle is to shut down the free speech of anyone they define as fascist.
[quote)I’m not seeing the problem.[/quote]
Take your head out of the sand.
You let them, unless they are interfering with other people’s rights to do the same.
I was in So. Korea last year. I heard a lot about the North. Comparing that to the US is not a good thing. They are not even close, not in the same league. It is a real insult to the people who have suffered under the repression of that regime to trivialize what they have gone through and are going through, by comparing that to Trump. He is terrible and odious yes, and if you say he lies 7 times a day my reaction is “why are you defending Trump? I’m sure he lies a lot more than that.” Kim Jon Ung (or however you spell his name) doesn’t have to bother to lie to his people. He just kills any who dare dissent.
Antifa is a part of the new Marxism which has taken over much of academia, many news outlets, the HR Departments of many corporations and threatens to turn our Democracy into a Marxist state. Yes, they are a fucking problem.
Yes. That is Marxism. You are looking to control outcomes not opportunity. You are placing more importance on the group a person belongs to than to the person him or herself as an individual.
:dubious: Well, aren’t Nazis also bad guys for telling their listeners to destroy Jews and blacks and other “inferior races”, for example? Even if their speech, like that of the WBC funeral protestors, is constitutionally protected and delivered in a legal and peaceful way? So anything bad that comes from Nazi demonstrations is likewise on the Nazis themselves, right?
It’s completely arbitrary and inconsistent to declare that the legal, peaceful, constitutionally protected actions of WBC protestors publicly displaying hateful messages on signs automatically make them “bad guys”, while the legal, peaceful, constitutionally protected actions of Nazi demonstrators publicly spouting hateful messages in speeches do not.
And I don’t think you’ve really thought through this “funeral escape clause” tactic of trying to defend your blatant double standard by adding the ad hoc rider that peacefully demonstrating for one’s hateful views near a funeral somehow exempts the demonstrators from your allegedly general principle that “it is bad to shut down or silence opposing viewpoints, no matter how odious”. After all, lots of other kinds of hateful but peaceful demonstrations are also designed to be “disruptive” of nearby activities, in the sense of making the participants in those activities feel attacked or intimidated.
For instance, if Nazis hold their legal demonstration near a Jewish synagogue on a Saturday morning, or near an African-American church on a Sunday morning, in order to upset the worshippers with their antisemitic and racist messages, does that also make them “bad guys” who don’t deserve their free expression of speech? Badder “bad guys” than they already are by being antisemitic and racist Nazis in the first place, I mean?
In short, Scylla, so far you’ve entirely failed in your attempts to wiggle yourself off the double-standard hook in any kind of logically defensible manner. Feel free to try again if you think you’ve got any better arguments.
Take her with you next time, let her give the barber her specifications. She looks at you a lot more than you do, unless you spend all day shaving. Besides, a happy wife and a bad haircut is a lot better than vice versa.
Don’t call me fucking clueless. I’ve had more dealings with the alt-right than you ever will. I know exactly who they are and the are most certainly not targeting Ben Shapiro. Thats a talking point. Not reality.
Nonsense.
Nobody has taken away anybody’s right to freespeach.
Naaaaah. They haven’t.
That doesn’t sound very fucking big at all.
You are talking about one speaker at one venue one year ago. And they didn’t actually “shut Shapiro down.”
I think you need to get a bit of perspective.
How many have they actually “shut down?”
Are they not allowed to have “basic principles?” Are basic principles a violation of the US Constitution?
:: looks around ::
Heads out of the sand.
Still not seeing the problem.
So whats the problem again?
Give me a fucking break. Being in South Korea a year ago doesn’t make you an expert on propaganda. I’m not insulting anybody.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Strawman.
Can you be absolutely clear for us here:
Are you being hyperbolic: or is this something that you absolutely believe?
They aren’t any more of a problem when they actually break the law than anybody else that breaks the law.
LOL.
Hey everybody, apparently I’m a fucking marxist!!!
Ben Shapiro was an Editor for Breitbart, so, fuck him. Yes, he is not a nazi, and has even been targeted by the alt-White for having a funny name. He was able to do his little yappity-yap thing, and the Mercury-News made no mention of six hundred police, but there was something about hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on securitifying the campus.
I don’t worry about that either. I don’t worry about one-off things that a person on twitter with 100 followers is outraged about.
If you are so worried about 20 guys burning a car at a demonstration and feel it’s the downfall of our country, then you need to read more news sources.
If you are so worried that you might be condemned for using the wrong pronoun one time, then you should probably reflect on how you view the world, and how it views you.
If you are so worried about telling un-PC jokes, you should visit a comedy club sometime and listen all the un-PC jokes that are being told, and then see if those comics are lambasted.
As I stated above, if you aren’t worried about all the destruction and violence caused by sports fans around the world, then why on earth would you be so concerned and worried about 20 guys burning a car?