I’ll deal with the religious stuff later…but I don’t like people to touch me, unless I’m VERY fond of them. This includes shaking hands. I also have arthritis, so there’s a good chance that “taking my hand” is going to cause me pain (my joints are not deformed, you can’t tell I have arthritis just by looking at me, but I might be in a good deal of pain at any time). I’m fairly young for arthritis (in my forties) but it does hurt.
So. Not everybody likes to be touched. In the past, I’ve put up with it, but these days I will pull back and say “OUCH!” if someone hurts me. If this embarasses someone, too bad. If I’m being hurt, I’m going to let people know about it. Maybe they won’t hurt the next person.
Maybe a small part of the problem is the fact that some people have a blind spot where it comes to how their religious habits might effect others. They see praying, holding hands, and bowing heads as events that shouldn’t offend anybody, because it doesn’t offend them.
I mentioned before how the religious mis-use the word “compromise”. Several people have said that we who are not religious should let them lead a prayer at our table, because that is how a “proper” host would make make her/his guest welcome. Let’s turn it around, shall we? If you, the Christian, were to have me over as a guest and I said that I would prefer that you not pray at supper because it is against my beliefs, what would you do?
Compromise?
This situation rarely comes up for me any more. If someone at the table suggests saying grace, I don’t join in. I don’t bow my head or close my eyes or hold hands with anyone. I won’t try to disrupt the prayer. But I won’t pretend to join in, either.
If I am ever subjected to one of the meal-cooling prayers (several minutes long) that I experienced as a child, though, I don’t know if I’ll resist the temptation to dig in. Or possibly pull out a book.
No, no, no. Don’t you know anything, bro? Only atheists are supposed to compromise. After all, atheists believe in nothing. Therefore, the compromise is for them to do a little more than nothing. No biggie, right? I mean, they still believe in nothing.
[Close captioned for the sarcasm impaired]
(Not Slythe, but anybody else who might be reading this and not know me.)
Much as I tremble at the prospect of disagreeing with Miss Manners (the World’s Most Correct Human!), I concur that it’s not mandatory to let a guest at your table offer a spoken prayer.
I often have small dinners for students and other groups of people, not all of whom I know well; and I think I have a responsibility as a hostess to avoid letting any of them be subjected to insult or embarrassment, not just to let the religious ones follow their usual customs. (Here’s a little hand grenade a guest once tossed on the table: “Dear Lord, we thank you for your bounty, and pray that we may all grow in gratitude and love for you and for your Son, our Savior Jesus Christ.” Talk about killing a friendly dinner-party atmosphere!)
My solution is this: if a guest asks to say grace, I smile kindly and respond, “A spoken grace? I’m afraid that’s not the custom at my table. But do feel free to pray silently whenever you wish.” Then I quietly turn to another guest and fill their glass or do something that’s obviously non-prayerful but isn’t immediately initiating a loud hearty conversation over the grace-sayer’s silent petition.
On the other hand, if I know I’m the only non-grace-sayer present, I don’t shut down the praying folks like that, even though I’m the hostess; I just let them rip and do a mental shrug while respectfully waiting for the “amen.” And naturally, if I’m a guest at someone else’s table, they can express their gratitude to Jesus (or recite Hebrew brachot, for that matter) till the ice cubes melt and the bread dries out, without disturbing my attitude of courteous silence. (Actually, I kinda like joining in on the brachot sometimes, although I know it’s inconsistent of me.)
Kimstu (who still feels kind of bad about contradicting Miss Manners, but knows she’s right on this one)
I’ve thought about this a lot… my father and his wife and their hoarde of small children are extremely religious Christians. Extremely. We went to Taco Bell once, and they made us all hold hands and do a totally loud spoken grace in the middle of the restaurant. I felt like an idiot, because I wasn’t about to bow my head or pretend to pray with them. (btw, I only see them once a year or so)
Anyway, I’ve often wondered what would happen if they came to MY place for dinner, and before eating I invoked the goddess or something… I bet you any sum of money they’d make a big stink about it, and totally not see that it’s the same damn thing that they do to me when I’m at their house.
As an atheist, I don’t care if people want to pray before eating food that I serve them (because I sure ain’t Julia Child!). I DO care if they want me to pray along with them, though. It’s hypocritical for me to pretend to worship something that doesn’t exist just to make others happy. Fortunately, MOST of my family and friends accept my non-belief in gods, supernatural beings, etc. and don’t push the issue.
Frankly, I don’t care if people worship gods, trees, a pile of dog shit, or whatever; that’s their choice. I just don’t want to be forced to participate, that’s all.
One time, at thanksgiving, my family had a small get together for it(about 10 people max.), and I asked to say grace for everyone, so they started taking me seriously and I said quote…
Wasn’t too popular with my mother though, Got sent in my room to eat that year. Best thanksgiving ever!
A person’s beliefs should not cause strife and discontentment. Unless the people present are family members and are aware of my beliefs I simply bow my head and say a silent grace if I see that my hosts do not say grace before a meal. With the family it is different because they know we say grace before the meal.
With the group of people described in the OP, I would have to agree that it is wrong for them to pull the group into their grace. Making a big show of saying grace is not the point. The point is that you take a few minutes to offer up thanks. As demonstrated by the thread, the more noise made, the more objections you have. Instead of being an example of your belief, you’ve caused people to be uncomfortable.
I would definitely NOT put someone in an uncomfortable position because of what I believe.
I totally agree with most of what everyone has said already but as a Christian I thought people might want to hear my side of it.
If I thought that people would be uncomfortable that I wanted to say grace I wouldn’t do it. You can say a silent pray to yourself and not make such a big deal out it.
Frankly, I think God would appreciate the fact that I am treating people with gentleness and respect, something I am called to do as a Christain. If I’m respectfull of peoples uncomfortableness and am willing to forgo my “wanting” to pray before a meal for their sake, and they know this, than I think this alone says much more than any prayer before a meal could.
There’s just something totally … wrong … about saying Grace over Taco Bell food.