Should baseball teams be allowed to quit if they're losing?

Great Debates
1

With tongue only partly in cheek, I would like to propose that if a baseball team finds itself getting royally stomped, it ought to be allowed to withdraw from the game, say at the 7th inning stretch.

I am posting this after witnessing the Cardinals/Pirates Saturday Night Massacre. Final score–19 to 4. It wasn’t the Pirates’ fault, they were just outgunned. It wasn’t any fun to watch, you know? It was pitiful and humiliating.

Is it time we abandoned the Victorian mind-set of “winners never quit, and quitters never win?” How about “discretion is the better part of valor”? How about “he who fights and runs away…”?

Maybe teams could be allowed a certain number of walkaways during the season, which wouldn’t count towards the pennant race. Like a “get out of jail free” card.

What say the Teeming Millions?

2

Absolutely, positively NO!!

First of all, the team might come back. There have been cases of teams down more than 10 runs with one inning to play that have come back and won it.

Secondly, concerning your “get out of jail free” scenario… why should the Cardinals be deprived of a win for performing well? In your scenario, the manager would tell Mark McGwire “Mark, if we get too far ahead, they’ll dimply walk away and we will lose our win. So, go out there and strike out for the team.” That is just bad for baseball. Even if you kept the Cardinals win and just wiped out the Pirates loss it would still be a problem. Imagine the same scenario between division rivals late in the season. Not only does the winning team want to win, they want the other team to lose as well.

Zev Steinhardt

3

I’m not a sports fan, but in thinking about this it occured to me that chess is really the only competition (a game and not a sport, I know) in which resigning is an accepted way to end the match.

4

That’s what we need! Chess cheerleaders!!

5

They ought to do like cricket games, and drag them out over several days, charging for new tickets each time.

Within one season of that, the fans would demand a clock be added to the game. :slight_smile:

Actually, I like baseball (except no-hitters I don’t get why that’s something people want) because it’s about the only sport where you aren’t always starting over.

From badminton to basketball to hockey, after a score, the game starts over from the original position.

Only in Baseball (yes, gilligan, and chess) are there truly different “states of the board”.

6

For those of us in St Louis it was loads of fun to watch.

But a team should not be allowed to just quit. Don’t forget, the night befroe that one, the Cards took a stomping of their own, 13 - 1 if I remember right. Reasons for playing the full 9 innings is the same as football teams play right down to the last second. I’m from St Louis, so let’s look at the Superbowl Champion Rams of the 1999 season. Many of their games were blowouts during the regular season, the outcome already decided midway into the 4th quarter. But the teams keep playing until the last second. Why? Because anything can happen. Sports are unpredictable. A pitcher can strike out all 3 batters one innings, then give up 6 or 7 runs the next. You play all the whole game, just in case the team that’s behind pulls out a miracle.

7

I would never patronize a team that quit during a game because it was losing by too much. I think there is an implied contract that the teams will do their best at all times. Even if you’re getting clobbered, you still have to try.

The average professional athlete is so competitive that his ego would never allow him to quit.

8

I agree with BobT. As I type, my Giants are kicking the butts of the Milwaukee Brewers. No WAY do I think the Brewers should be able to forfeit! The Giants have lost eight games in a row, and I’m happy to see them on the leading side of a blowout. Of course, when the Giants were getting blown out a couple days ago, it was so painful to listen to that I WANTED the game just to end.

As far as I know, the only way a team forfeits a game is if their fans behave in a fashion that disrupts play. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Cardinals lose a game in this way a couple years ago? I remember several years ago, when the Giants almost had to forfeit as a result of all the fans throwing balls on the field (it was Ball Day - great idea, huh?). So, uh, if you really want a forfeit, act like a boor, I guess.

9

By the way, the Giants just gave up four runs in the seventh inning, and if they end up losing this game too, I’ll take back whatever it was I said about quitting. This is getting pathetic.

10

For casual sports, this happens a lot.

The sun is low, the keg is just foam, and the ump is secretly dialing his pager behind his vest so he can make excuses and leave.

Everybody asks who can drop them at the local pizza place, and people walk away from the field. One or two die hard are whining to come back and finish the inning, but we know they just want help collecting equipment (which always belongs to the die-hards).

Pro sports should have the same option.
“Called on acount of the players went home.”

11

I don’t it should be allowed. It would not be well taken by fans, who paid good money to see the games. (Somehow, I don’t see a “pro-rated refund” in the cards.)

Or for that matter, it wouldn’t be well taken by the fans listening on the radio or watching the game on T.V.-- a fair number of fans who believe that baseball is the best of all the team sports point to the fact that it’s the only game without a clock, and that, theoretically at least, there’s no lead that’s absolutely insurmountable.

Personally, I find it entertaining that, during really lopsided games, some managers bring in a position player to pitch (to save their bullpen for another day). In fact, there are at least a couple of players–Doug Dascenzo comes to mind–that pitched well in these types of situations (although Keith Osik got shelled last night).

Finally, I imagine that a really clever manager will take advantage of a lopsided game (whether he’s winning or losing) to work on some things: perhaps get a little used reserve some playing time, rest an everyday starter by pulling him out of the game early, or give a utility player some defensive innings at a different position. This applies to the players, too–a pitcher could work on a new pitch or a batter could work on his mechanics at the plate. I believe that players or managers who take advantage of these situations better themselves and their teams.

(Kyla–not to add salt to the wound, but I thought that just two days ago, the Brewers came back from an eight run deficit and ended up winning the game. Just another reason not to pre-emptively quit)

Chess Hijack–I once was playing a friend of mine on our lunch break at school, and clobbering a guy really badly (just so I come off as too arrogant, he was having a bad game–we were normally pretty evenly matched). I kept asking him to resign, so we could get another game in before our lunch ended but he refused: “Maybe you’ll stalemate me.” I finally decided to queen as many pawns as I could, and I think I had something like four queens when someone walked by and asked, “HOW many queens does he have?”

My friend resigned on the spot, knocking the pieces over. Heh, that’ll teach him.

End chess hijack.

12

Those of us in St. Louis loved it. :slight_smile:

13

Those of us in Da 'Burgh who follow baseball were crushed. I am not 1 of these people, but I actually heard the announcers for today’s game say,“Well, we won’t talk about yesterday’s game. But the day before…”.
( I was at my father-in-law’s house. )

I had the same thought as Ducky when I heard the score.

OTOH- In an actual competetive sport, the Knicks eliminated the Heat for the 3rd straight year.

14

The Chicago Cubs entered the 9th inning of a game down by nine runs once a few years back. A hopeless case even St. Jude wouldn’t have noticed, let alone a bleacher bum, right?

The Cubs went on to score 10 runs in that 9th inning and win the game.

Like Yogi said, it ain’t over until it’s over…

Yer pal,
Satan

TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
One month, one week, six days, 4 hours, 48 minutes and 39 seconds.
1728 cigarettes not smoked, saving $216.00.
Life saved: 6 days, 0 minutes.

15

I don’t think a baseball team should ever quit, but what about this: If the Cardinals are ahead of the Pirates by 15 runs in the 7th inning, how about letting the Cardinals forgo their at bats if they so choose? The losing team still has to try to come back within the context of 3 outs per inning, but the Cardinals can elect to skip their half of the inning if they think their lead is safe enough. What say the Teeming Millions?

16

T’would never happen.

What ball player would pass on an opportunity to pad his stats - the basis upon which he is paid his millions? Then add to the equation the incentive clauses.

No one would risk ending up with, say, 99 RBI at the end of the year and missing out on a $1 million bonus if they’d reached 100.

Now, if the OP had been, “Should college basketball and NBA teams be disallowed from doing that tedious, end-of-the-game process of fouling and hoping the other team misses their free throws ad nauseum in an attempt to come back?” Absolutely. It never works, and it’s maddening to watch.

17

To amplify what Molossarian said, even if there is no contractual bonus involved, players want their stats. Would hits, RBIs, strikeouts, etc., be wiped out in the case of a forfeit? A pitcher’s ERA would be really wacked out by something like that, theoretically.

Keep in mind that Joe DiMaggio got a hit in the 1941 All-Star game, which came in the middle of his 56-game hitting streak. But it didn’t count because it wasn’t an official game. Likewise (and much more devastating), in 1932 Jimmie Foxx led his league with 58 home runs. He had actually hit 60 that year, tying Ruth’s single season record, but the game/s in which he hit those two home runs were called before the fifth inning because of rain, and weren’t official games. The home runs didn’t count.

Keep in mind the 1960 World Series. New York outscored Pittsburgh overall, and won their three games by wide margins. Should Pittsburgh have just folded their tents and forfeited the Series? I don’t think so.

You can’t just up and quit, even if you’re getting tarred. It just runs counter to everything inherently baseball.

18

To clarify one point, baseball players’ incentive clauses cannot be based on performance standards like hits or home runs. They can only be based on standards like at bats, innings pitched, or games played. There can also be bonuses for winning postseason awards and such.

However, baseball players can’t have a contract based on how well they perform on the field (unlike football’s Ricky Williams). Just how much.

19

Should a baseball (or other sports team) be required to quit? Probably not; that would be a major rules change, and the sport might be not considered baseball after that change (note, however, that in some sports – I’m considering tennis a sport for the sake of argument – we do require one team to quit, or at least formally lose, when the other side reaches a certain score.)

Should a team be allowed to quit? Can’t they now? Granted, the fans (who paid umpety-ump dollars for the tickets, not to mention the beer and the hot dog) and the other team (who really wanted their RBI averages boosted by this game) may well feel cheated, but, if that’s not a showstopper, what’s to keep a team that’s down by 34 runs from recognizing the hopelessness of the situation and walking?

The rule for resigning from a lost game should be moderately complex, to keep sports statistics buffs (of which baseball has more than its share) happy: say, after the 5th inning is over, a team that would still lose by scoring +2 standard deviation unanswered runs in each remaining inning is off the hook. The game counts in all ways, of course – one team resigned, the game didn’t get rained out. The resignation ritual should be something fairly dramatic, say, the manager of the resigning team going out to the pitcher’s mound and placing the pitcher’s foot on his neck (well, given that players wear spikes, maybe not that).

I think that this could be picked up in the commentary: “One more run by the Louisville Sluggers, and the Brooklyn Ratbastards will officialy be in the resignation zone. And – wow, there goes the ball! It’s going over the fence! The manager of the Ratbastards is coming out, he’s performing the proskynesis in front of the Sluggers’ manager, he’s eaten dirt! Folks, this game is over!”

I see possibilities here. Perhaps we could implement this rule for hockey, also, and allow the captain of the resigning team to formally surrender his stick to his counterpart.

20

High school baseball has the “10-run” or “mercy” rule. If a team is behind my 10 or more runs after five complete innings, the game is over. It’s also used in some amateur baseball tournaments at a higher level, although not in the NCAA.

However, at a youth level, the rule makes sense as there is no need for kids to get further humiliated and/or hurt.

During one Super Bowl (the one where the 49ers crushed the Broncos), John Madden made a statement, paraphrasing here, “They always say that one team never quit. Of course they didn’t, they don’t let you quit.”