Without wading into the “but Trump is worse” issue, that very much surprised me how Biden so overreacted to that guy. I could almost see that reaction if the guy called him names, but he asked a rather straightforward question and the answer is really mundane.
We’ve done it here on the SDMB many times. Politician wants to ban assault weapons. People say it is taking away guns. Others say it is not because you can keep hunting rifles and shotguns and pistols. People reply that an assault weapon in a gun and you are taking it away.
It goes on for pages over semantics on whether or not that counts as taking away guns. The answer for a politician like Biden to such an easy question like that should be like returning a serve in tennis. His blood pressure shouldn’t rise one point.
But here he is insulting him, using profanities, and threatening violence against him! That does not bode well for the future.
Joe has taken an active stand against domestic violence. If I told him that I was having an argument with my wife, pointing my finger in her face and she asked me to stop doing that, and I replied that I would slap her in the face, would Joe condone that? Would he believe that I should have my gun rights removed?
Indeed he does. The VAWA requires that. It would be an assault.
And as I said before, I could understand it if the guy was being insulting or provoking. Even if you want to argue that the guy was factually wrong (which is for another thread) and we concede for the purposes of argument that he was wrong, then you just tell him respectfully why he is wrong.
It is pretty unhinged IMHO, to use profanity, insult and threaten a voter for this. Unlike Trump’s comments above which were largely campaign rhetoric, this was a personal threat against an individual, one on one.
Trump’s got priorities. First, he’s going to release his tax returns like he “said he would”. (That’s Republican for “lied”.) Then he’s going to have Mexico pay for a blight, a wall. No, wait, before that he’s going to need a wall. Also on his list is coming up with something cheaper and more favorable to the end user than Obamacare. Also, coal. He said some dumb shit about coal jobs that he’s probably working very hard with regards to.
I believe Trump took and passed any test od any kind as much as I believe he’s going to make good on any of the above lies promises.
(Hold a mirror under his nostrils- does the mirror fog up? That’s the only test he could pass.)
Do you have a rebuttal? Do you support threatening voters with violence when they dare ask a candidate a question? Did the voter act in any way inappropriately? Do you disagree that Biden committed a criminal offense on camera (assault)? Should that offense disqualify him from owning a gun? And if the law adjudges him not qualified to own a gun, should he have command of the US military and all of its guns, not to mention nukes?
Not for you, really. I don’t see much reason to try and engage in a good-faith discussion with someone who has already shown that they can’t be trusted to post in good faith.
Again you are disingenuous. Joe Biden did not threaten a voter with violence because they asked a question. Post the transcript and show that I’m wrong. (You won’t do either of those things, tho.) And that question was asked in such a way that it too is disingenuous, proving once again to me that you cannot be trusted to have a good-faith discussion.
Yes.
Yes.
Moot points because there was no criminal offense.
I love how you try and use the word “voter” instead of “citizen” or “person” n another attempt to mislead and color the conversation.
What did the citizen do wrong? (Also, I’m not sure what trick I am trying to pull by using “voter” although I would bet that he is indeed a voter; not sure of the distinction here)
A transcript? I’m not a court reporter. Watch the video yourself and see exactly what happened. Biden is making his point by repeatedly sticking his finger near the good citizen’s face. Maybe you don’t believe Biden was that close to his face, fine.
The citizen then places his hand in front of Biden’s finger and says “That’s (indicating Biden’s pointing) not okay.” The reply is not “I’m sorry for invading your personal space” or “Come on, dude, I’m not that close to you” but is a threat to slap the citizen in the face.
To follow up: Why doesn’t Biden have a pat answer for this? He has had plenty of time to rehearse. What’s wrong with this:
I fully support the Second Amendment. I am not trying to take your guns. Yes, I believe that if you have an AR-15 or other assault weapon you should have to register it with the government and we will not allow any more to be sold. Too many people have died with these types of weapons, and although I’m sure you are a good guy, we just can’t allow them anymore. I fully support your right to hunt, target shoot, and carry pistols if your state allows it.
If the person pushes back, then say:
I’m sorry we don’t see eye to eye on this issue. I’m sure that there are many other issues that we agree upon so that you could still vote for me. I urge you to look at the issues and I hope that you decide that you can still vote for me in November. We need good hardworking guys like you to support our campaign.
Smack him on the back, and then move on. That’s Politics 101. Joe’s been at it for almost 50 years. He should know better.
Come now. You know that you cannot make a conditional threat if you do not have the privilege to use force if the condition if fulfilled.
Example:
If you try to harm my spouse, I will punch you in the mouth.
Not assault/illegal threat. If the condition is met, you are privileged to use force.
I’ll kick your ass if you don’t stop dating my sister.
Assault/illegal threat. You do not have privilege to use force if he dates your sister. Dating your sister is legal and you have no say in the matter.
Not imminent? Whatever “I’m going to go out” means in that context (is Biden going to have a scrape in the parking lot? That’s more unhinged than anything) a reasonable person would believe that he may take a slap. You cannot get away with a “not imminent” threat by merely saying it will happen 3 seconds from now.
The “that” that Biden is demanding that he not tell him is that the citizen may not ask him to quit poking his finger in his face. The citizen has every right to say that to anyone. Therefore as the citizen did say that and will continue to say it, he will reasonably fear a battery based upon Biden’s words.
ETA: Under your analysis, if a person says “If your heart continues to beat, I will slap you” does that make it not assault as the threat was conditional?
Idle threats are made between people all the time.
I am not sure a reasonable person would believe that Biden meant to throw down then and there with that worker. Biden does not seem a credible threat in that situation.
That he was browbeating that worker is still a super shitty thing to do.
Ah, it’s a good point. I’m sure no prosecutor would want to prosecute that in this situation. It is certainly unusual for a presidential candidate to threaten to slap someone that if I was that guy I might think (and if I was not a supporter, indeed hope) that he might just slap me.
Again, if you use my wife example above, nobody including Biden, would be so forgiving. “Aw hell, I wasn’t really going to slap her” wouldn’t go very far.
The situation is important. If a bunch of friends are joking and one says, while laughing, “I oughta slap the shit out of you” nobody would reasonably take that as a threat. After someone says to your face that you are full of shit and then says it, I wouldn’t discount reasonable fear. And keep in mind that you don’t have to be in literal fear that the slap might hurt or that Biden will beat your ass right then and there. The fear is of the offensive contact alone.
The argument is a good one: No presidential candidate is going to slap a citizen on the campaign trail, therefore it is not reasonable to think that he would, even though he said he would.
However, I would respond that it is so unusual for a candidate to threaten to slap someone on the campaign trail that such unusual circumstances would cause that fear in a reasonable person.
Regardless of whether it is a technical crime, it is certainly poor form for a candidate who makes his platform about eliminating domestic violence to personally get violent over a mundane issue.
I’m still wondering what the citizen did wrong here.
