Should democrats rethink "defund police" and push for law and order?

Disingenuously stated intentions and real world outcomes are wildly disparate.

That is right, but, enough about Trump… Biden is not saying what the disingenuous Trump claims.

Much in the same way the right claim to be for promoting law and order but repeatedly break the law, openly encourage violence by their followers against other Americans, and repeat false narratives over and over (like claiming that the Left want anarchy or that they’re “burning down cities”) to distract from those actions. Wildly disparate indeed.

The videos of leftist radicals looting, setting fires, and assaulting police are not deepfakes.

Is this one?

Except as often as not there are right wing agitators and white supremacist doing the violence.

Looters are criminals- they arent necessarily liberal or conservative.

Before the brownshirts and right wing agitators got to Portland, there was a lot of graffiti and a few broken windows.

Portland wasn’t the only city where 10s of millions of dollars worth of mostly peaceful looting and arson took place. What message is sent to businesses and those with means to leave when such lawlessness is implicitly encouraged by the local government? Want to know why food deserts and such exist? It’s the lack of security and civility.

They are, however, being grossly exaggerated and misrepresented by those who at the same time minimize or ignore the violence, chaos and lawlessness being carried out by right-wing groups and indeed by LEOs themselves, because reality doesn’t match their preferred narrative. Instead, they simply repeat that narrative and, when called out on it, create strawmen as a deflection tactic.

What message is to sent to whole communities when the police who are supposed to be enforcing the law instead grossly abuse their power and repeatedly and disproportionately assault and kill members of the public with impunity? What message does it send that half the country, in reaction to such events, refuses to hold those officers accountable for their actions and instead engages in virulent smear campaigns against the victims? What message is sent when peaceful protests against this situation are met with even more heinous smear campaigns, which are echoed up to the highest office in the land? What message is sent when right-wing activists commit acts of destruction and violence intended to discredit those trying to get the message heard that reform is needed?

You’re correct that there is a “lack of security and civility” but it’s not where you assume it is.

Maybe they are but the denunciation of such and ADMIT that it does happen by the left would limit the ammo.

The flat refusals that you see here are not based in reality.

Of course rioting and looting is happening, and some of those involved are left-wing. I cannot deny that, nor would I. If anyone is “flatly denying” that those things are happening at all, they are wrong.

However, what also isn’t “based in reality” is most of the right-wing narrative. The extent of the rioting, looting and destruction is grossly exaggerated (again, I refer you to the claims of “burning cities”) and falsely attributed exclusively to the Left. Far worse, the narrative relies heavily on a deliberate conflation of all protesters with what is actually a small fringe of rioters and looters, even where there is no evidence of overlap and where the vast

And it is being done to discredit those protesters who are using the only means left they have to address endemic corruption and malfeasance in the law enforcement and justice system that have led to the regular killing by LEOs of black people without serious consequence to the murderers. Let me repeat that: the right-wing narrative is designed to preserve a status quo that has resulted in the unjust deaths of countless American citizens and a lack of equal treatment under the law for all.

So as I said, there is certainly a “lack of security and civility”. But let’s make sure that problem is correctly attributed.

:octopus:

If you missed it when this first came to attention,

The network has taken down and apologized for digitally manipulated, misleading photos that appeared on its website last week in stories about Seattle’s Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, or CHAZ, the six-block areawhere people protesting the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis have established a police-free zone, mostly peacefully.

So, while Fox claims it was an accident, they are posting multiple mis-attributed pics, and have been caught compositing photos to create their imagery. So if we want to talk about fakes…

Yes, a few of the photos and videos were deliberated faked, but not all of them.

However, if things are as bad as the right claim, why would they have to fake any of them?

I’ve seen the “burning cities” narrative repeated by a lot of people, including my Trumpista relations. It remains bullshit.

I think a bit of defunding is in order over at the Bend, Oregon Police Department:

Is it possible to justify the actions of these police without deluding yourself or others? I don’t think so.

Jesus.

And this is the point I was trying to make earlier - to many Americans the police are the enemy, because the police have made it very, very clear that this is so. How do you get justice if the justice system is itself fundamentally unjust? What other options do you have?

I just noticed that the end of this sentence vanished. FTR, it was “the vast majority of protesters have been peaceful”.

Yes, hyperbolic partisan reporting is a big black eye in America right now. It is so ingrained as a means to an end, that I don’t see it going away anytime soon though.
Education seems to be the key but only as far as people will allow themselves to be educated about issues.

There are a lot of right (and left) wing narratives, and I believe that problem is correctly distributed among them both. I won’t suggest the left stop what they do as I doubt the right will stop what they do either.

But at some point it is my hope that enough people see the deliberate (half truths) and change the way they view each other.

I’m not sure what you mean by “correctly distributed among them both”. If you mean it is happening on both sides, then yes. If you mean it is happening in more or less equal measure on both sides, then no.