Inspired partly by this thread and partly by some other threads, and largely just by how I feel . . .I, and many other people I know, have pets who are a huge part of our lives, and who we would describe as part of our family, and would like to take to more places with us. I restricted this question to dogs because those are the only animals I see people take out on a regular basis.
In general, dogs are restricted to outdoor environments (and are even then not allowed in all outdoor environments). Maybe I’m being willfully blind because I love my dog so much, but I truly don’t understand why dogs are frequently banned from places where babies/children are allowed. Well-behaved dogs cause about as much disruption as well-behaved children, and poorly-behaved dogs are as disruptive as poorly-behaved or irritable children. Yet children are allowed almost everywhere people are, and dogs are not.
Is it because they may harm other people? Well they can do so outside as well, and no one is calling for them to be restricted from all public places. Because they are dirty? They can shed, may drool, and the very poorly trained ones may urinate/defecate in a public place. But children can also make messes, throw things around, etc. And just as places have a policy of asking people with disruptive children to leave, they can do the same with disruptive dogs.
I have heard (no cite available, sorry) that in many European countries dogs are allowed in many more public spaces, malls, airports, grocery stores, etc. I live in southern California and I can see a bit of an informal shift taking place here as well. Many people have small dogs (that are easy to carry in arms/bags) and take them everywhere with them.
As someone who is allergic to dogs I’m gonna say I’m against this idea. I’m fine with dogs in the out of doors but dogs in enclosed places can put me into an asthma attack. As well, I am happy with the knowledge that products I buy and bring home have not been subjected to whatever dog molecules trigger my attacks.
Say what you will about kids but at least they are not going to trigger a possibly deadly asthma attack in me.
I live in the Dominican Republic and dogs are everywhere. Most restaurants are outdoor affairs, and many put out bowls of water for what ever dogs come around if accompanied by their humans or not.
Say what you will about poorly-behaved kids, but they’re still human, unlike dogs. I like animals, but many public spaces are not designed for them, and as much as owners may love their pets, they need to understand that others might not. As for well-behaved dogs, they often become harder to control once other, unknown dogs are involved.
I see dogs, where they are permitted, as being tolerated by society rather than having an undeniable right to be there, and so don’t agree that their acceptance in parks or other outdoor spaces can be the basis for an argument to extend that privilege.
I can tolerate all of those, right up to the last three. Threats and actual attacks are way out of bounds.
Leash laws can go a long way. But seeing how many people in local parks ignore leash laws, I think that dog-owners need more socializing before they’re ready to have their access expanded.
Also…dog owners, as they currently stand, are remiss in picking up their doggies’ poop. Again, they need to learn how to obey the laws as they are now before we can start talking about giving them additional access.
I love dogs! I hold with the idealistic notion that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners. But…there are way too many bad owners. They need to get their shit together, and, alas, I mean that literally.
A lot of people are afraid of dogs, and a lot of people are allergic. They should not have to deal with dogs in enclosed spaces where they are made to feel afraid or have an allergy/asthma attack. Crossing the aisle or trying to stay on the other side of the room is not the same as being able to cross the street or change directions outside. It’s bad enough when people let their idiot dogs loose, off-leash outside and yell at strangers that it’s friendly. Well, maybe people don’t give a shit the mutt is friendly, they don’t want it anywhere near them, period.
Based on your argument in the OP, I would say we should restrict children from those public places. They’re noisy, make a mess, throw things around and such.
Anecdote: I once avoided a certain library–for something like 10 years–because I went in to get a book on hold and in the 30 seconds while I was distracted my kid, who was about 2 at the time, started pulling bound magazines out of the shelf. I went along behind him trying to pick them up but as anyone knows, destruction can happen much faster than repair, so after a few frantic minutes I just picked him up and took him out of there, vowing never to return.
By contrast, if I walked in there with my dog, who would of course be on a leash, I could grab my items and check them out with no problem. My dog will sit and stay for at least that long (he had to do it for 3 minutes to pass his Canine Good Citizen test). I would be out of there in two minutes or less–a lot faster than the blind person who does get to have her dog.
Also, somebody up above said babies don’t slobber. Yes, in fact, they do. They also spit up and shoplift. They have sticky fingers (in more than one way) and they will grab your silk shirt and use it to wipe their snotty noses.
I think because there are more poorly-behaved-in-public-spaces dogs than children. And also the worst dogs are going to be more bad than any child could ever be.
I am obsessed with my dog and we did obedience class for several years and I’ve socialized her a great bit but still she doesn’t do well in public places. I can’t imagine someone else with a dog who acts like mine trying to take their dog out to Starbucks. And then what about all the dogs who haven’t done obedience along with their owners who are idiots? They’re more likely to go out than me and my decent dog.
Anyway I think the problem is that you and your dog are on the far end of the spectrum of well behaved dogs and humans.
I concur with the sentiment that the problem – when there IS a problem – is rarely with the dog and usually with the dog owner. Some are ignorant, others are just uncaring jerks. But most are neither of those things, and neither are their dogs.
But my question for all those who want to ban dogs from just about everywhere is this: how do they feel about service dogs – service dogs for the sight-impaired, the hearing-impaired, or those special dogs that visit patients in hospitals because they’ve been shown to have positive effects on the patients’ mental health and, by extension, on general health? And if those dogs are OK, then why not any well-behaved dog? Dog-haters tend to overlook just how many dogs there are in our society, and the amazing strength of the bonds that we form with them. Banning them is just not a winning strategy.
As an aside, in my old neighborhood there was a big independent video rental store that had a “Dogs Welcome” sign in the window, and provided a water dish and doggie treats for the canine visitors. I’m not aware that any trouble ever occurred, and they certainly maintained that policy all the many years that I visited there. I used to go in there with my big furry Bernese, who occasionally got acquainted with other canine visitors resulting in some affable sniffing, or would get admired by the humans for his big friendly smile.
Fuck that shit. Dogs are not humans; they are not persons. Allow them off-leash only in dog parks (and of course in their owners’ homes); allow them on leash in other outdoor environments; allow actual service animals (read: seeing-eye & hearing-ear dogs) indoors. But not otherwise. I won’t eat at a restaurant that allows dogs in general inside, nor patronize a store.
Also, I have three small children, the oldest two years old. We don’t take them to places where decorum is expected (read: any restaurant more formal than McDonald’s) because they don’t know how to behave there yet and they’re likely to ruin everybody else’s dining experience. There are places for children and dogs; restaurants are not among them.
Service dogs must be well trained and behaved in order to perform their intended function. If they are not able to perform that function they are typically returned.
Any joe-blow with a pet can say “My dog is well behaved” but the history of dog attacks shows that some people are a poor judge of their pets.
So how do you decide with non-service dogs can stay and which have to go?
Life time dog lover here. I sobbed like a baby when my last dog died. (Romeo) But I have to agree with the nay sayers. I don’t want to make other people feel uncomfortable. And if I ever caused some one to have an asthma attack because of my dog, I would feel absolutely horrible.
But hey, there’s always Petsmart! My dog does love going to Petsmart.
There’s also a strong public interest in not making life overly difficult for parents, and barring them from bringing their children into public places would make it tough to be a parent. There isn’t really the same concern with pet-owners. So we’re willing to suffer some inconvenience due to other peoples annoying toddlers, but not so much with their annoying dogs.
Plus CPS gets pissy if you throw some water in a bowl and leave your infant alone in the house all day.
Personally, I think you have it backwards. In my experience, dog owners tend to overlook the fact that their pet is not as friendly, well-behaved or universally-loved as they imagine. If you have a strong bond with your dog, that’s great, but why should I be affected by that?
Good question, and I don’t think there’s a good general all-purpose answer, but I’d say it’s a judgment call based on the circumstances. What I object to is the kind of totally dismissive “fuck that shit” argument we sometimes see.
In general, yes. But it depends. Just a couple of days ago we had a very nice lunch at a winery, in a beautiful informal setting that was a sort of porch open to the vineyards on two sides. The resident winery dog, somewhat like a Scottish Terrier, an old and slightly arthritic little guy, quietly meandered between the tables and once had a little nap under ours. It was part of the charm.
