Should Eric Holder resign?

Recently, there have been calls for Eric Holder, the Attourney General of the United States, to resign his office amid a number of scandals. I think we should discuss the matter here, since obviously the Dope is so full of hyper-intelligent and amazingly handsome people.

The first controversy, though not the one which sparked the issue now, came from the New Black Panther case. The facts aren’t much in dispute: several members of the New Black Panther party showed up outside a voting area and acted in a disturbingly intimidating manner, though it evidently didn’t change the outcome noticably. Still, it was a violation and was brought to the Justice Department. Holder cancelled the investigation for lackof evidence, and there it might have stayed. However, a Republican resigned from his office there in protest, saying the decision was motivated instead by a refusal of the Administration (and Holder in particular) to prosecute minorities. This was then supported by the Christopher Coates, his supervisor and former ACLU lawyer, who reported sopme disturbing news directly to Congress - and defied the Justice Department, which tried to prevent him from testifying. I can’t confirm it, but I believe Coates was a registered Democrat.

But alright, maybe Holder stretched things a little, but at least no harm was really done in the case, so fine. I don’t know that I would hound him from office for it, though I think it shows poor judgement.

The second case is less forgivable for several reasons.

Project Gunrunner was a semi-secret program by the ATF to track gun purchases by suspected criminals operating outside the US. That is, when the agency had enws of such an event, they would contact Mexico (in this example), track the shipment, and then watch where the guns went. Gunrunner is legitimate, raised no questions from Mexico which is where a lot fo the “action” was.

Fast and Furious was a program started under Gunrunner in 2009, and was much less responsible. In this case, the agency actively purchased guns and funneled them deliberately to Mexican drug cartels. Thus far, it’s at least 2000 firearms, which have been used in over two hundred separate crimes. Mexican officials were not informed, and have lodged a protest. The arms ranged from pistols to AK-47’s (and I hope to God they weren’t fully automatic).

The program only came to light when a U.S. border patrol agent was murdered on the job with a a gun, purchased by the government and handed over to people known to traffic with the cartels. Worse yet, the program doesn’t seem to have any clear purpose. Guns were shoved out, but with little tracking. They weren’t observed or monitored, and the agency didn’t follow-up with arrests of smugglers or work with Mexican authorities to nab the cartel leaders.

But fine. Maybe Holder didn’t know. That’s what he’s been saying all along. That’s what he testified to before Congress.

Well, no. We have documented evidence that Holder knew of the program early on and approved it. His story then changed to, “I didn’t really know what it was,” but that was beginning to look extremely shaky in light of the many briefings held with top Justice department officials. Now he seems to simply be accusing people of conspiring against him or something.

Short version: if he didn’t knopw, it was because he didn’t want to know, and he lied under oath to Congress. Get this man out of there.

Yes, he should.

Have there? From anyone in particular?

And haven’t we done the Black Panther story to death already?

I’d like to know that too.

Hell no! Negroes are scary and they’re taking over! There’s one in the White House and if things keep going the way they’re going our daughters, or even worse, our sons will think it’s ok to marry black men!

It’s what people say, or so I’ve heard.

So - what does the Attorney General have to do with a program started inside another program by the ATF? Is the AG the ultimate head of the ATF? I thought each agency, in this case the ATF, had their own boss.

And if the ATF doesn’t have their own boss, and belongs to the Judicative branch (which I also don’t understand if the case - I would expect them under executive), then wouldn’t the minister of justice be the ultimate boss instead of the AG?

Or do you mean as AG his job was, once he learned what the programm really was, he should have brought charges and stopped it the juridical way? But it was secret, so could he have brought charges in court, or would that have been treason/ Betrayal of secrets?

And is it implausible that he knew that the programm existed, but not that it was going off the rails, esp. if the bigger program was succesful and basically okay?

I am not sure how much Holder knew or when, but the AG is the head of the the U.S. Department of Justice. The head of the ATF reports to him.

“A number of scandals” is a bit misleading where that number is two. I wouldn’t say Holder’s done a good job, but he’s certainly no worse than Ashcroft or Reno.

I would disagree on Ashcroft, but not Gonzales. Lest there be any confusion, I rather considered the F&F mess to be a series of scandals, though I suppose that doesn’t really make any sense logically.

I’ll always remember EH for his speech (scolding white people).
He’s been a pretty mediocre AG-what happened to his proposal (to try the Al-Quedah thugs in NYC)?

I thought secretly funneling weapons to thugs was a virtue to Republicans.

IIRC New York objected on the grounds that the terrorists would escape in dramatic comic-book fashion and destroy the city and breathe fire and eat babies and stuff like that.

Also, it may have been a challenge to find an objective jury in NYC.

Not sure who the un-named 52 house members or 3 presidential candidates are, but there are a few people in particular.

Holder on the other hand believes that the Daily Caller is responsible for encouraging all the others to call for his resignation:

For failure to prosecute Cheney for war crimes he should be removed from office.

As for the Black Panther thing, we have one internal Ass.Dep AG resigning over it in protest, but the head guy saying insufficient evidence. Judgment call. Not resign over it.

As for the gun thing, even if his initials are on memos, that doesn’t mean he was paying attention or it was his baby, neither of which is likely. It was a real dumb plan, but it wasn’t his. Perhaps the idiots who came up with it should be fired and/or prosecuted, but I see no call to do that. I don’t buy perjury based on not remembering he signed off on it. I had my boss chew me a new asshole once for not informing him of a development (I don’t remember what, it was a quarter century ago), but I did find the memo I wrote him, with his initials on it twice to indicate he read it. He apologized to me sheepishly. Thing is, I know what human memory is like, and just seeing a memo doesn’t mean it is his baby. Kinda like George W. Bush seeing and ignoring and forgetting the Osama determined to strike in the US memo in August 2001. If W doesn’t have to resign over that, then Holder is in the clear.

But failing to prosecute the W crowd for war crimes is enough to get him fired.

No, Holder shouldn’t resign. He should have been fired by Obama for the Fast and Furious debacle. Dennis Burke should have been fired as well, rather than being allowed to resign, for his lying letter to Senator Grassley.

And yes Reno and Ashcroft were both terrible AGs and should have been fired by their respective Presidents.

Ralph Nader would make a good AG.

I would like Holder to resign over his failure to find anyone to prosecute for the massive fraud that was in evidence during the banking scandals that led to the current economic unpleasantness. Particularly the firms that sold pension fund managers all those bad-debt riddled mortgage-backed securities even as they were betting massively against them in the credit default swop market. People really, really, really need to go to jail for that.

Also, Hank Paulson and the hedge fund managers he tipped off about the Fed takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac need to go to jail.

Holder has been strangely unable to see the fraud under his nose. Clear dereliction of duty. If we had an honest White House he would be investigated. But we don’t have that.

Everytime I hear Holder address a contraversy, he comes across as an incompetent manager. I’d fire him for that even if he did nothing illegal.

You do realize that all occurred before he took office don’t you?