Should i bail on my trip to Israel next week? (Leaving 2023-08-06)

For sure, it’s not really something to worry about either here or there; my point is only that despite Israel having that kind of reputation in the popular imagination it really isn’t something to worry about much (like guns here in the States).

If you hear an air raid siren, go inside the nearest building - a stairwell or parking garage is best, but inside is always better than outside - wait about 5 minutes, and go on with your lives. Don’t panic. Or do: it’ll amuse the locals.

This is definitely an issue in parts of Jerusalem and something to be aware of as a woman travelling there, yes.

When I was there, nearly everyone initially spoke to me in Hebrew. Whenever I’m in a Mediterranean area people think I’m a local.

I know someone who had stones thrown at her in Jerusalem. She was not going out of her way to piss anyone off— they just decided they did not like her shorts, or something along those lines.

Ah. Which brings up a separate question. Will long pants be acceptable, or should i try to bring a long skirt. I’m not sure i have any that are really suitable to travel with… (I did press a contra dress skirt into service when i attended an Orthodox bar mitzvah, but it has a LOT of fabric to pack.)

Will my regular floppy hat, that i wear for sun protection, be enough of a head covering? Should i also pack a scarf? Can i wear the hat indoors?

How much of my arms should i be prepared to cover?

In most of the country, you can wear the standard Israeli girls’ uniform of tank top and short shorts. If you look around you and all the men are suddenly wearing black… cover everything except your hands and head. Or just turn around and go somewhere else.

So i should pack my regular shorts (5 inch inseam… Uh, 130cm) and my Hawaiian shirts, which are comfortable in the heat, and look like an American tourist. :smiley:

I’ll bring lightweight long pants and long sleeved shirts too, by way of sun protection. And the afore-mentioned floppy hat. Which is why i wondered if those will be good enough for areas where women are expected to cover their skin.

Depends on exactly what you plan on doing. If you’re going to visit sites like the Kotel or hang out anywhere where there’s a high concentration of Orthodox people, you may want to bring (or buy there) some kind of fabric to wear around your waist as a skirt - that way you can conform to their standards of “modesty” without having to inconvenience yourself too much.

You might be fine with long pants or you might run into some assholes who decide that’s still too immodest for them.

If you aren’t planning to go to any of those sorts of places, then you can wear whatever you want! That’s my wife’s stance when we visit - we had a pretty bad experience in Jerusalem one of the first times she went, where we got harassed by a gaggle of Orthodox ladies on what should have been a public street - and since then we just don’t frequent those places. Israel has plenty to offer even if you discount places controlled by fundies.

Floopy hat is probably good! Sunscreen always helps. Not sure about scarfs? I’d think I’d be too sweaty for that, but I don’t know much about sun scarves.

Arms are the same story as legs. Most Israelis don’t care if your arms and shoulders are totally uncovered, but the ultra-Orthodox will have an aneurysm if you go to a place they consider “theirs” with your arm skin showing. If you won’t be spending much time in their circles you can just have a shawl to use as needed.

If they’re loosely fitting you’re PROBABLY fine, but that PROBABLY comes with a huge asterix. That’s the second problem with this sort of BS. The first problem, of course, is that I don’t want anyone - Jewish, Muslim, or Christian - to impose their interpretation of religious law on me. FUCK that. But second, the way in which these customs are enforced is essentially vigilante social shaming. Whichever asshole (and they tend to be other women) cares enough to stand on the corner and harass tourists makes the call on what pants are too short or too tight, and exactly where this particular asshole will draw the line is entirely arbitrary.

Thanks, that’s a great idea. I’m not sure where we are going, but the standard tourist sites probably include some areas where it will be an issue. If i wrap a temp skirt around my long pants i bet that will be fine.

That idea comes to you courtesy of the asshole Orthodox lady who chased my wife around the streets of Jerusalem trying to physically wrap a piece of cloth around her legs. :face_vomiting:

Yeah, if i lived there i might want to take a stand. I doubt I’ll spend more than a couple of hours, tops, in places where anyone cares. And for that, “don’t make waves” is my preference.

Holy fucking shit!

It’s still a lot less to pack than an actual skirt I’d be willing to wear. And buying something there that i could repurpose to wear with a bathing suit when i get home might make a nice souvenir.

Oh, for sure - you can’t reason with these people, they’re religious fanatics. The best way to deal with them is to leave them in their little bronze age bubble and give them a wide berth.

You sound as if you know what you’re doing. So go for it.

I would say: don’t miss out on spending some time in the old city of Jerusalem. The new city (and Tel Aviv, for that matter) are really not that different from most European cities, but the old town has a quite different ambiance. It’s not as confusing as, say, Marrakesh, and is quite easy to navigate if you have a decent map.
And of course it’s packed with historical sites.
Unfortunately the Dome of the Rock was off-limits when I was there… maybe it’s open at the moment?

I meant to add that this is a perfect example of the Toupee Fallacy. You know about the ones you recognize. You have no idea about all of the ones that you don’t.

No idea how closely they scrutinize who walks in there, but keep in mind it is essentially a mosque, so I would not walk into the shrine wearing shoes and short shorts, throw food wrappers at the Foundation Stone, etc.

Let us know how it all works out when you return.

I spent a month there in 1976; hard to realize that was 47 years ago. There was an ultra-orthodox neighborhood then, but they were not aggressive. In fact when the wheel fell off our child’s stroller, my host suggested taking it to someone in that neighborhood. He didn’t speak English and wouldn’t have spoken Hebrew even if I could have (which I couldn’t), but I was able to communicate in extremely limited German (he was Yiddish speaking, of course) and he fixed it fine in one day.

I’m curious. Are you willing to share which restaurant wouldn’t take your card?