So, after years of people telling me it’s the greatest fantasy book ever, so in my current craze for fantasy, I do some research (somewhere around here I’ve got a thread detailing my request for barbarian fiction, but I ain’t ponying up my $5 yet, so I can’t search for it). I get interestingly mixed reviews, either love it or hate it, so I figure it’s got a good shot of being decent. Then, I find out that it’s all dark and brutal &c, so I find a copy for $2.50 and give it a shot.
30 pages into it, I go back to staring out the window of the el, waiting for my stop.
My question is, is the rest of the book just thousands of characters indistinguishable from each other blabbering, getting introduced and then dying ignomiously? Given the Appendices listing literally dozens of characters that are difficult if not impossible to separate into their groups by names alone, not to mention the sheer volume of notes that would be required, is it worth my time to keep reading? I assume that at some point, he’s got to stop introducing characters and get to something.
I’m on the third book in the series; it helps to think of it as a VERY large arc seen at the micro level. Martin definitely diverges from the typical fantasy world, and has no qualms about killing off characters that you are doubtless thinking are terribly important. Some of your favorite characters are still alive well into the third book, but you have to go through a LOT of politics and death and eventually war to get there. If the politics aren’t grabbing you now, bail out. It only gets more complicated.
Oh, and that story hinted at in the very first chapter? I have a feeling that all the rest of this stuff is going to become background to that major arc.
Oh, and he does begin to revisit the characters. You’ve got… probably twelve protagonists in the first book. Some die, some don’t. Second book picks up some new ones who were minor or absent before. I’d give each character two or three chapters’ worth. I’m finding that Tyrion (the Imp) is my favorite character. Oh, and don’t even try to learn the appendix now. Use it later on when you forget who a certain person is. For now just take it as it comes. If it’s important they’ll remind you again who’s whom.
Martin’s characters are some of the most solid and consistent I’ve ever read. Although they may act in ways you don’t like, they never act out of character. Events are never nonsensical either; lots of things will happen that you won’t expect, but you can always go back and see a clear progression to each event.
Yeah, the politics can get complex, but for me that’s one of the strong points also. But there aren’t so many threads that it all becomes a jumbled mess. Let me put it to you this way: I read the books first and told my wife about them, but for a long time I couldn’t convince her to read them because of all the deaths. Finally I got her to try the first book after talking about the characters more, and now she’s hooked.
I cannot recommend this series enough. It starts slow, but the payoff is enormous. The characters are so rich and complex, the plots intricate but make sense. Martin does not coddle his characters-- you never know what’s going to happen next. I think it’s brilliant and well worth the effort. YMMV.
Keep reading, Chairman. The characters do become more clearly defined as the book progresses.
This is my favorite sword and sorcery–okay, mostly “sword”–series. Is it great literature? No, but it’s a heckuva good story. One of my favorite things is that stupid actions have consequences. In most S&S fantasy, the main character manages to escape by the skin of his teeth, no matter how boneheaded his plan. Not so with Martin’s characters.
It’s also among the most “realistic” fantasy I’ve ever read. I’m interested in medieval history, and Martin’s story, minus the fantastic elements, could easily be set in 800s Europe. The ruthlessness, the power struggles, the familial in-fighting, that all rings very, very true.
By all means continue reading. It is a complex series and well worth the attention.
By the end of the third book, most of the characters I empathize with are still alive, if not unscathed.
[spoiler] Well, hardly a spoiler, more like unfounded speculation. I really believe that the Others can be defeated by Dragon Fire. Jon is probably not Ned’s son, but his bastard nephew, the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna. This would give him a serious claim to the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, and a reason to allow Dany to marry him. She could then use the fire of whichever dragons of hers survive to slay the Others, or to make more obsidian to arm the Westerosi knights.
I am probably completely wrong, and I have been consistently wrong about all other major developments in the series. This shows why I am not a successfully published author of fantasy tales. [spoiler]
Chairman Pow, I think you should keep on reading. I had a lot of trouble at the beginning of A Game of Thrones, mostly because the Good Guys weren’t always good and the Bad Guys weren’t always bad. Or something like that. Yes, it may seem like there are plenty of characters merely being introduced, but rest assured that most of them play a significant role in the story - that is, it’s not as if he introduces them to us and then kills them off or doesn’t revisit them.
There are a lot of twists to the tale - it’ll always keep you guessing.
First of all, to the OP - Yes! Yes!! For the love of God, YES!!!
Ahem. Anyway, I just finished re-reading the series (I’ve read each book at least three times), and a few thing are troubling me:
[spoiler]1. Is Coldhands actually Benjen Stark brought back from the dead? If so, who brought him back, and for what purpose?
What is the relationship between Thoros and Mellisandre? They both claim to worship the same god, but they do it in very different ways. Is M a false prophet? Are both of them? I think the fact that Beric’s burning sword produced heat, while Stannis’ didn’t is a major hint here. And who is this Lord of Light, anyway? Is he good? Evil? Or just interested in dancing with the Ice?
What are Varys and Illyrio up to? I know they want Dany to survive, and to raise her dragons, and that they feel the need to keep the kingdom together at all costs, but to what purpose? Who are they working for?
What’s the story with Summerhall? I know it has something to do with Raegars birth, a tragedy and the failed ressurection of dragons, but what the hell happened there? I have a feeling that the answer to that is pivotal.[/spoiler]
One of the things that I did like about the series was that there was a sense of moral ambiguity and the characters were complex, etc., etc. I also liked that it was relatively low-fantasy and, as I understand, the story more-or-less cribbed from some historical experience.
I put this one down and picked up Tanith Lee’s STORM LORD, made it about thirty pages into that one before wanting to puke from having all the new elements introduced (having to figure out the relationship between the gods, having the author make a huge deal about the racial differences between the characters, but not necessarily explaining them, what the hell does a “zeeba” look like, etc.). The reason I liked Conan was that there is a definite sense of place to a lot of the characters/locations (i.e. he can say “Aquilonia” and one thinks France, saving Howard from pages of descriptions).
I’ll give THRONES another shot, but it’ll have to wait until after I, THE JURY.
I think the first book is amazing, but it made me feel rather heartsick and I only got about a tenth of the way through the second book before I gave up.
Chairman Pow, it really depends on who you are and what you want out of a fantasy series. “You couldn’t handle the truth!” describes me pretty well. I didn’t know that I didn’t want that much reality from my fantasy until I tried to read it.
But if a quite realistic fantasy sounds just perfect to you, this is the best series I can think of for you.
I liked the first book enough to buy the second…but just barely. Started the second, got about 50 pages it, put it down and haven’t had the urge to return to it. And now the plot is mostly forgotten so I have very little desire to give it another shot.
Read the first two and didn’t particularly like them. Maybe I just don’t have te right sort of mind for Enormous Epic Fantasy. Hated most of the characters, and didn’t find the politics particularly interesting. YMMV.
I would encourage you to read even if you only find it mildly interesting now because it gets better. The first time I read the book I too thought that it was an okay book, but nothing spectacular. Part of the problem was like yoo, I got annoyed with all the new characters, all of them who seem to have similar names. (i.e Tywin’s son is Tyrion, whose nephew is Tyrek, and let’s not even go into the Targaryen history, it’s really hard to distinguish from Aegon, Aerys the Conqueror, Aemon, Aegon II, Aerys II, Visenya, Viserys etc. etc.)
I also made the mistake of not paying attention to past events (I thought, " How much can the past affect the present story anyway!" :rolleyes: ). However if you stick with it, and pay attention to the past the book gets better. A Game of Thrones is good, A Clash of Kings is probably the worst in the series (and yet still one of the best fantasy novels) while most reader’s favorites is A Storm of Swords.
Honestly it’s worth plodding through all that history, and confusing character names because by the time you get to ASoS (A Storm of Swords) you are going to be blown away. The third book is where you have battles, massive treachery, and loads of twists and turns. I’ll admit though that a Game of Thrones was a lot easier to read the second time around.
There’s an FAQ for the series available here. The short answer to most of your questions is that they haven’t been answered yet, and that most fans hope the answers will be forthcoming in the remaining books.
