Should I fix this car?

Factual Questions
1

Or get a new (used) one?

The car is a 1993 Infiniti J30 with 200,000+ miles* on it. It has been a fantastic value up to now (bought it used 10 years ago, few problems, runs nice, but doesn’t get great mileage) but now it needs about $3000 worth of work. This is including parts & labor but not including a few things like fixing the CD player, which would probably be another $300 or so.

I guess one thing to factor in is that I love this car, it handles well, accelerates fast, and has adjustable seats and Bose speakers. I’m just not sure I can find a comparable used car that I can actually afford. (I don’t have as much cash on hand as I did when I bought the Infiniti and I don’t like making car payments. On the other hand I don’t like making REPAIR payments much either. And I really hate getting stranded.)

My other car is a Saturn. It is noisy, the seats are cheesy and not so adjustable, and it does not have Bose speakers. That is the kind of car I could afford to replace the Infiniti if I decided not to have it repaired.

I am not really much of a car person. For instance I didn’t know who made my Saturn until after I bought it when my son said, “Way to buy another GM car, Mom.”

Anyway…if there is a good way to assess the value of a car and some kind of cost-benefit analysis, I would appreciate hearing about it.

*Of the “few problems” I mentioned, one is that the odometer works only sporadically.

2

My 1989 Mazda MX 6 (Guy) stopped keeping track of mileage at 306,979 miles, which was in August 2005. Still going strong!

What type of repair do you need to make? I think that might be more important than the cost of the repair.

3

This is one of those only-your-mechanic-knows-for-sure questions. We don’t have enough information about the condition of the car. Is the thing a jalopy or is holding up pretty well? What’s the body like? The engine? The exhaust system? The tires? What work is being done on it?

At 200K+, you may be approaching the point where the monthly repair bill exceeds the cost of a monthly car payment. But there’s no way to tell without examining the car.

Or you could just buy another Saturn and install Bose speakers.

4

It is an interesting question. i would second that it depends upon the conditionofthe car. if you are seeing body/frame rust, it is probably not a good idea to spend a lot of money. One thing i’ve noticed: there is a HUGE difference between highway miles and stop-and-go driving miles. You can easily wreck a car in 60,000 miles (stop and go). Whereas, i’ve seen cars with 150,000 (highway) miles that look brand new! The last point; it seems to me, that most japanese cars get very hard to maintain , when they get older than about 10 years-if you need a headlamp lense, or a fender, you might have to get the parts from a junkyard. my wife’s Nissan was going along at 120,000 miles (14 years) when the transmission suddenly died. A used tranny would have been over $5600, with no guarantee. Given that we had just sunk $500 into the car (new CV joints), it didn’t seem worthwhile to fix the car- a new car was a better option.

5

Okay, well as I said I’m not a car person but here’s what I’ve got.

Basically, it’s been needing a tune-up. Now this is not exactly the right terminology because it doesn’t have a carburetor, it has some sort of fuel-injection, and it needs injectors–for this procedure they have to pull the engine and that alone costs about $700 (labor), then it’s $140 (parts) for each injector (or whatever it is) and there are six of them.

There is some kind of intermittent blockage in the fuel line, or something. Usually it starts right up–it is the kind of car where you are not supposed to touch the gas pedal until it’s already started, but lately I’ve had to do that, so that’s bad.

The last thing, it has a whining sound like a belt or something about to go. Mechanic says that is the timing belt or timing chain (whichever it has, I’m not sure, he thinks it might be a chain instead of a belt, whatever). This obviously was an over-the-phone diagnosis and I might use a mechanic who already KNOWS which it is without having to look, on an Infiniti.

As to the condition of the body: great. It could use some paint on the hood. (Well, probably I’d have to paint the whole car, but the only place it isn’t shiny is the hood.) Needs a new windshield. Interior, leather seats are showing a little wear (but they are adjustable!) and the seatbelts are, for some reason, really dirty. New tires as of last summer. Sun roof leaks in heavy rain or in drive-through car wash.

I would say 25% of the miles I’ve put on it are city driving and the rest highway miles, but since I live in Denver, highway miles are just as stop-and-go as city streets so no benefit there.

So far it has not developed electrical problems. In my experience, electrical malfunctions cannot be fixed and that would be a sure sign to sell it.

6

Here’s how I suggest you look at it:

Option A - You put $X (3,000? 3,500?) into this car and what do you have? In this case, you have a car you like for this, that, and the other reason, in good overall mechanical condition and (I assume) up to date on maintenance, though with rather high mileage.

Option B - You sell this car as is for $Y, buy a replacement for $X+Y, and what do you have? How does it compare as a whole with what you have in Option A?

In general, you tend to get more for your money by fixing what you have rather than buying a replacement. One notable exception can be when what you have needs major repairs with a hefty price tag. Here you need to consider the transportation value of the car over time. For example, for many older cars, if you replace/repair the engine or transmission, you can’t sell it the next day for as much as you just put into it. But if you drive it for another X years, you get the benefit of the money you spent. In considering replacing the vehicle instead of repairing it, you need to think about where you’re likely to be in X years with this vehicle as compared to that one.

The high mileage is an important thing to factor in, in terms of the expected life of the car. 200,000 miles on a well-made car such as yours is not necessarily scary, but it’s not as reassuring as if it had, say, only 100,000 miles.

And yes, how much you like (okay, love) the car is important too. Many people spend a fair amount of time in their cars, and if it’s an unpleasant experience it can grind on them. There is a value to quality of life.

So in essence, think about what the cars (this one fixed, or its replacement) are worth to you as transportation and something you will live with for several years, and on that basis try to figure where your money is better spent.

7

Hmmm. Red flag.

According to my books, one does not pull the engine to replace injectors on that car. The induction manifold has to come off, and it’s a fair-sized job, but still not in the $700 labor range (I’d expect more like 4-500). I’m guessing on what labor rates might be in your area, but I can’t imagine I’m very far off. Actually pulling the engine is 3-4 times as much labor.

It is a timing belt (not chain) design.

For a number of reasons, I think it would be very wise to get a second opinion. Make sure it’s from someone with some expertise on this type of vehicle.

8

Have a mechanic (maybe a different mechanic) look over the rest of the car. Tell him to evaluate it as if you were looking to buy it. If he comes up with a list of other expensive problems other than the ones you know about, it may be time to pull the plug on your dear old Infa-nitty. However, if the things you’ve listed are the only problems, I’d fix them, especially the timing belt.

Two suggestions, though. Get a second opinion on the cost of the repairs. Run a bottle of injector cleaner through the tank before you get the injectors replaced. If you’re lucky, that’ll fix it.

9

Yes, I was assuming the car had been checked over for maintenance and repairs needed, rather than just the specific complaints addressed. Before proceeding with something this expensive on this old a car, a general overall inspection is indeed called for.

10

Advice so far is pretty sound. It might pay to have the whole car inspected by a good mechanic before you make your decision, just to make sure there’s not some other expensive problem looming on the horizon.
I’ll just mention that your windshield may be covered by your comprehensive insurance coverage, take a look at your policy, or call your agent. Even if it’s just an accumulation of chips and scratches, it may be covered.

11

The car’s Edmunds FMV (Fair Market Value) on this car is $1600 sold by a consumer to a constumer and $3200 sold by a dealer to a consumer.
I’d say this one is worth fixing at $3K.
If you buy a $3K car, you’ll likely wind up spending a healthy amount of money on the first year on the incidental crap that always seems to go wrong with a used car.
With this car, you’ll have just DONE the incidental crap and will at least know how it’s been treated all those years.
Incidentally, is that the original transmission? If it’s rebuilt or replaced, that’s another mark in favor of keeping it.

12

And there’s your savings for fixing the car. Why in the world would you have comprehensive on such an old beater?

I second the second opinion. You have a great, reliable car, even if it is an “old beater” (I meant that with affection).

Maintenance is maintenance. I just invested $700 into my 75,000 mile car, and you know what? The line-by-line of everything that was done is on board. It’s part of the price of maintaining a vehicle. Most importantly, you know who drove the car before today. You don’t have the foreknowledge with buying another used car. Get it fixed.

Just out of curiosity, what are adjustable seats? AFAIK, all seats are adjustable to one degree or another.

13

Comprehensive is very cheap, it covers theft, fire, vandalism and glass replacement for a few dollars a year. While I wouldn’t buy collision insurance on an older car, I always carry comprehensive.

14

I have used comprehensive insurance to replace three windshields. You just call one of those mobile replacement services, they come and replace it at work or home and then bill your insurance company directly at least that is how it works in MA. One time my windshield had lots of scratches but I wasn’t sure if it qualified for replacement. A light hammer blow certainly pushed it over the line if it was close in the first place.

15

From a 100% economic standpoint, until the average monthly repair cost + insurance exceed the price of a new(er) car’s monthly payment plus its insurance, net of any change in gas consumption, you’re better off fixing the old one. (slight simplification, but close enough.)

So in that sense, probably 98% of all cars are replaced waay too early to be economcally efficient. The cheapest thing to do is run it until it’s dead, dead, dead!

But as Gary T said in his first post, a major fix is a lump-sum investment that you can only recoup by owning (& maintaining) the vehicle long enough to recover the value of the big fix. That’s probably about 1 year per $1000 spent.

The worst thing to do would be to buy the big fix, then 6 months later decide to sell the car. Or have the bad luck to wreck it, or have some other major fix become necessary. Been there, done that, and it hurts.

Turning from economics …

It sounds to me like you really, really want to have a nice-brand car, not a cheapo. But you can’t afford a new nice brand. I just bought a used very nice car myself, so I understand the feeling.

Try looking for a newer similar replacement. Can you get a 75K or 100K mile car like the one you have? How much does it cost? How does that compare to the trade-in value of your current one + the cost of the reapairs?

You hate monthly payments, but interest rates are pretty low now.

If the car is deteriorating, better to sell it while it just has ocasional glitches rather than is truly broken.

Finally, notice that in the last 10 years luxo feaures have moved a lot farther down the food chain. In 1993 fancy seats & speakers & dual zone full auto A/C and whatnot where only found on cars from BMW, Inifiti, Caddie, etc. By the 2000 model year, VWs, Toyotas, and Chevvies had the same features.

So you may be able to trade down one brand level & save a bunch of money while still getting a good vehicle that will still last to 200K+ miles.

16

A related question: it seems that the insurance system works against fixing an older car. Suppose you spend $3000 on your car-and next week it gets wrecked by a drunken driver. Your isurance company cuts you a check for 1600-less your deductable-so you have LOST $4000+ on the deal. Better to drive an antique, and get replacement value insurance! :smack:

17

It going to be important to determine the value of your car as is - how much could you sell it for? Add that to the $3000 repair bill you are facing. That would be your budget for buying a replacement vehicle. If your Infinity is as clean as you are saying, a savvy DIY mechanic may be very willing to pay good money for the car, as he could repair it for probably about 1/3 of what you are facing (remember that you are paying labor AND a mark-up on parts). Personally, I would have a very difficult time justifying a $3000 repair on a vehicle that was 13 years old, had over 200K miles, and was not a collector model.

Based on the information provided, I would start looking for a new vehicle. Scour your local used car magazines to get an idea of car prices in your area, and let your friends and family know you are looking so that they can keep their eyes open as well. Keep in mind that common off-lease cars (Ford Taurus, Mercury Sable, Chevy Impala, etc.) typically represent the best used car values, since they are made and sold in such volumes that the supply normally exceeds the demand. My 2002 Taurus cost only $8300 in December of 2004, had about 38K miles, had all but the “luxury” options (leather seating) and had good paint/body. I admit I don’t know the used car market in Colorado, but in Ohio this is a pretty standard price to pay for vehicles of this type. Greater savings can be had by shopping for a vehicle a bit older, say 4-6 years old instead of only 2. As always though, there are lemons out there in every price range, so bring a critical-thinking friend along on test drives and don’t be afraid to be picky.