Should I pay more than high bluebook car value?

We have been posturing so far.

I will see him tonight for a test drive (although I have been in the car many times before).

He said today that his floor is $12.0. Although, I don’t understand why his floor is $12.0 when his loan is only $11.8.

I told him to fix the timing belt and he said he would then want $12.1. He says a dealer would sell the car for $13.0 to $13.5 based upon his “asking dealers” and “checking the newspaper”. BULLSHIT! Edmunds sets the dealer value at $12.4 to $13.2 for a car with that mileage. He then says that the credit union says the max value of his car is over $13.0.

I will probably drive it, tell him my ceiling is $11.5 including a new timing belt. If he desn’t like it, tough shit. I’ll walk. If he takes it, then we get a reasonable deal. If not, then we avoid doing business between friends.

The shitty part is that he’s asking $200 above his loan balance for no reason. I can see wanting to break even at $11.8, but wanting to “profit” from me? I think it’s just his ego and his wanting to see if he can drive a hard bargain against an attorney (since he has made it abundantly clear that he wishes he was an attorney). He’s tried to raise all kinds of bullshit arguments as to why I should pay more, and I’ve shot all of them down except for the new tires.

Little does he know that in law, unreasonable people often end up walking away with nothing. GEEZE! :mad:

Yes, highway miles, mostly between Sacramento and SoCal.

FUCK IT!

Mike,

I don’t think I want to pay $12.0 or more for that car. Even with the timing belt, I don’t see it being worth $11.5. I trust AAA’s representations of value.

No deal. I walk. I don’t need to drive it.

Let’s save ourselves the trouble in advance.

It’s been a hoot.

Thanks.
-Mark

Dickhead’s reply:

Do people normally drive such hard bargains with friends?

Why do you imagine this guy is your friend? Clearly he’s not.

Absolutely don’t waste your time on a test drive.

Don’t buy this car. Seriously. If you want to continue being friends with this guy, forget the whole thing, no matter what price he comes down to. (If he sucks you back in with 11.5, then your attempt to bail out due to friendship looks like a cheap bargaining ploy.)

It’s just good advice. This is clearly not going to be a friendly transaction. If you want to stay friends with him, don’t buy this car.

Listen to yojimboguy

I intend to write him an email explaining my rejection of the $11.8 offer and that, while his negotiation tactics might work fine with a stranger, they shouldn’t be employed against a friend. I will reiterate that the value of the car is between $10.9 and 11.6, PERIOD, and his attempts to twist a friend’s arm into paying at least $400 in excess of FMV simply to cover his negative equity (and then some) is appalling.

I will also make sure to point out that I am an attorney and that I see right through his bullshit tactics. This will “rub it in his face” that I am an attorney and he is not. I never flaunt my career status because I don’t think being an attorney is such a big deal (in fact, it kinda suck sometimes), but I think it’s warranted in this case given his hypersensitivity to the issue.

I will also note that his move from $12.0 to 11.8 after telling me that 12.0 is his absolute floor indicates that he is acting in bad faith and is willing to lie to me to make a sale. Trust has been eroded. Now, I don’t know whether he’s lying about anything else about the car just to get me to buy it.

I don’t know WHY you’re pursuing this, BUT:

DO NOT tell him that lowering his asking price is a sign of bad faith. His initial price was that sign: lowering it is a sign of rationality.

Good point. The lowering of the price indicates a lie, though.

You are smart man.

Instead of writing the email above, I simply wrote him and said, “I’ll pass, thanks.”

How about this…

If I spend four weekends researching cars, and mulling over details, that’s about 64 hours worth of work. If my time is worth $30/hour (?), that’s about $1900 worth of time.

If I spend an extra $200 on Mike’s car, then I save a bunch of time, and I come out ahead by $1700. Then, I can use that $1700 as insurance against the possibility that something might go wrong down the line with repairs or whatever.

It seems like an efficient transaction.

You can come up with any calculation you like to justify buying this car if you want.

Frankly, you shouldn’t be buying any car without doing some research. I bought a new car in Feb. My research was: paying the Consumer Reports one-month membership (about $5) and looking for the Recommended vehicles in my price range. There were 2. Test drove both. Thought about it. Bought one. Total time. 6 hours max.

Think of it this way… were you shopping for a car before this particular “opportunity”? If not, then the only reason to get this car is that it’s an expecially good deal. And it’s clearly not.

If you were shopping for one, haven’t you already done the research? You know the book value of a Jetta. Is this the kind of car you were already planning to buy? If so, you’ve already done your research. Go find another Jetta.

If you are planning to buy some other model: again, the only reason you should ignore your research is if you can find an especially attractive deal for something else. And again, this is not such a deal.

Personally, I think you want to buy this car, and are rationalizing in the face of ALL the advice of EVERY poster to this thread.

If you want the car, buy it. $500 is not enough to agonize over. But don’t try and fool yourself into believing your getting a special bargain from a friend.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

I’m trying to be objective here.

No, it’s not a special bargain. I didn’t realize that buying a car would only take someone 6 hours.

That changes things.

Thanks.

I’ve decided to go to the open market.

I can get a better deal.

This thread accomplished two things:

(1) prevented an impulse purchase

(2) gave me perspective on how much effort it takes to wisely buy a car (since I’ve never really gone through the process alone before).

Thanks for the help.

Special thanks to you, yojimboguy!

Update: Why? Hell, I dunno.

2002 Mazda Protege. Done.

It took about 30 hours from time of the idea to buy through to the actual purchase, including hours of online research.

I bought a 2002 Mazda Protege 5 (the wagon/hatchback variant) back in February. Excellent choice!