Should I up and move somewhere exciting for grad school?

In My Humble Opinion
1

After finding out that I have less than a year left in my undergraduate studies, I finally got off my butt and started looking into graduate schools. I’d like to get a PhD, so my ideal program would be one where I could start on the PhD track right off the bat. At the same time, I really don’t mind going somewhere to get my Master’s, then moving on to the PhD. Whatever works best, I suppose.

But the real question comes from the fact that there are so many neat schools all over the country (and world) that have fields of study in what I want to specialize in (military history if I go with my History degree or International Relations/ Securities studies if I go with my Poli Sci degree). This leads me to a big question: do I do this next phase of school as cheaply as possible- stay in CA or maybe NV, possibly continue to work for my dad’s business (long story, I can explain if necessary. The point is if I did that, I would be a salaried employee), live in a city with lots of cheap apartments, and go to a cheaper school? Or do I suck it up, take out the loans, and move somewhere exciting? For example, there’s a school in Hawaii that has a military studies program and I can’t help but think that Hawaii would be a pretty sweet place to spend three years of my young life. There are also tons of programs in Europe.

Now, there are a million factors I’ll end up considering- the program, the money they’ll give me, etc. etc. This (the should I stay or should I go) is just the thing I’m wondering about at the moment.

Oh! I will definitely be funding this whole thing myself. If I stay close, work for my dad, and go to a cheaper school I can likely pay for everything myself with minimal loans in the worst case scenario. Anywhere else, I’ll be paying for with student loans mostly (I’ll def. be applying for scholarships and such though).

So Dopers young and old, what would you do? Would you stick around and do things cheaply? Or would you go have fun for a few years? And those of you that have gone through this, what did you do? If you could, would you do it differently?

2

MHO? Change schools. In most fields, people in the know will tell you that for your future employability, you should never earn multiple degrees at the same university. This is important for networking and for learning from different people and different points of view. Now, I am in a field where we are all told as undergrads to never pay for grad school because American grad. students are in such high demand they should be paying you to come, so take this next statement as you will. I graduated with my MS 3.5 years ago. I went to a state school instate for my BS and worked for the University for free room and board. Then I went to a different state school out of state with a full fellowship that covered tuition and paid me a stipend. And I got a gig as a research subject that was pretty painless and paid up to $100/day. To make a short story long, I graduated with money in the bank. Since graduation, I have bought a new car and bought a home on a relatively modest salary. Graduating with money instead of debt is a very good thing.

The first thing I would do is talk to your advisor or a professor in the field you are planning on going into or someone who would be hiring for a job you would be applying for and see what they say about where you should go to school and what degree(s) you are likely to need. You do not want to get a Ph.D. only to find out that it overqualifies you for the job of your dreams.

3

If you decide to go straight into a phD programs, most of them offer full funding plus a stipend in exchange for working as a TA or research assistant. You might even get a fellowship and not have to work at all (for a year or so). Most master degree programs don’t guarantee funding, especially if they offer a phD in the same subject. You might be able to get scholarships, though. I am not 100% positive, but I think there are programs that offer funding for a master’s in international relations. Caveat: this is very general information and depends on the program and school, of course.

I am trying to make a similar decision. I stayed in-state for undergrad and I really would like to go somewhere else for my master’s degree in public health, but it would be so expensive. There are some scholarships available from the schools I’m applying to but have no idea what my chances are of getting one. I am a good student but not the best applicant ever or anything. Well, I haven’t even gotten in yet so I guess it’s too early to start worrying about potential costs.

The livejournal community Applying To Grad has a lot of information about the whole application process.

4

Thank you :slight_smile:

I’m probably going to become a professor, but I’m not 100%. More like, 99% sure.

I’m lucky in that my dad’s business has a branch here in Bakersfield (where I’m currently going to school) and a branch in Las Vegas. I could easily go to UNLV and have a situation very similar to that if I were to stay here. So, Vegas pretty much falls under the “safe” category.

I have also been told that I should’t pay for much of my own schooling- so that’s definitely something I’m factoring in when I’m talking to schools. In the case of the Hawaii thing, a large part of the potential debt would come from the high living expenses of the Island. Ideally, the school would pay for a large chunk of my tuition and do a housing stipend, but who knows. I certainly am not above TA-ing, slaving in the cafeteria, or selling my body. Ok, maybe I am above that last one. Just barely.

5

Ok - to me, this settles it. Do whatever you can to minimize your debt - that way you can enjoy being a professor with the monthly pressing weight of student loans.

The brutal 800-lb gorilla that will sit on your back whereever you go, whatever you do. The crushing burden of eating Ramen noodles, when, goddammit, you’re supposed to be making money, not scrounging it together every month just to hand it over to Sallie Mae. The cold seeping in around the thick layer of sweaters because you can’t afford to pay your loan AND run the heat. The shame of not going to the movies with your friends, but rather watching reruns of Law-and-Order on NBC on Friday night. The biting aftertaste of Listerine that you’ve stolen from the drugstore and started drinking just to get a taste of a buzz. The horror of washing your calloused hands over and over and they never get clean from the back-alley handjobs you are forced to give at the end of every month… just to make that loan payment.

Ok - it’s not really all that bad. But it is a serious concern. In my opinion, you’ll be happier off in the long run if you stay local and minimize your debt. It will definitely increase your options later on (if you decide you want to run off and join the circus, for example, or teach English in a Chinese village).

6

Are you really sure you want to go to graduate school? No offense intended, but to me someone just now starting to look for a grad school smacks of, “oh shit, I am graduating, what ever shall I do?”. If you want to the whole starting a career thing, and there is really nothing wrong with that, there are a lot better ways to spend that time than in grad school.

7

Perhaps I was less than clear in the OP, but it has always been my dream to get a PhD. This isn’t a case of “Oh shit,” simply because I have a year to a year and a half to figure out what I want to do. That’s a little less than last minute.

The reason I said my realization was sudden was that I didn’t realize that I’d be graduating on time (not too terribly common with a double major). Graduate school has always been in the cards and will continue to be in hand. It’s what I want to do.

(And sorry if I’m a bit jumpy about this whole thing- I got into a bit of an argument with my father about my post-graduate plans. The whole thing is on my blog, but entirely too LiveJournal to recount here :stuck_out_tongue: )

8

Grad student checking in here.

My situation is a bit odd - I applied to a million grad schools (well, okay, maybe 10) and was accepted to only one (UChicago). And it wasn’t even to the program I’d applied to (English Literature) - UChicago has a 1-year MA program, and they send a lot of grad school applicants to this program instead. It’s kind of like a “prep” program for people who want to do PhDs but lack the research experience to get accepted right away.

Anyway, it’s been maybe a month and a half since we’ve started. And a LOT of people are starting to think twice about continuing on with their PhD, because graduate school is really, really intense. Our program is a bit lighter and we manage to have fun in-between, but the sheer amount of reading and research that’s expected of us is daunting, to say the least. And of course, most of us are staggering under the burden of student debt, and live in fear of the day we will actually have to start repaying all our loans - particularly in light of the fact that as academics, we will have to live like the proverbial church mice until the day we get tenure - IF we get tenure.

So, yeah, my advice would be to take the cheap route. Not much time to have fun anyway, as a grad student. If you want to do something fun and get away from where you’ve been the past few years, I’d suggest taking a year between undergrad and grad school to do so. Most of the people in my program took at least a year, sometimes two, to go work or travel or do whatever. You won’t be able to do much once you actually commit yourself to a PhD program.

9

I was more or less in your position some years ago. It came down to a choice between a free ride for a doctoral program at a university in California or paying for a one year masters course at the London School of Economics. I chose LSE, new opportunities opened up, and I’ve never looked back. Well, actually, I’ve looked back a few times and thought, “Wow, I really made a great decision.” A good friend of mine also got an MSc at LSE, and then did a PhD at NYU in international relations.

LSE has an excellent diplomatic history program, but if you’re interested in military history, King’s College is the way to go. But do not in any circumstance pursue your PhD in Britain. You’ll never get a teaching job in the US.

10

I’m a fairly recent grad trying to find a decent job and it’s not easy. “Oh, I just love the subject”, “Labor of love”, I’ll work it out when I get there", “the great boomer die-off is coming” etc. Then it really happens. I say: go for the degree from the best program you can get into, damn the money. Reputation DOES count, I am sad to be learning. It matters. Or get into a decent MA program and transfer up to a better PhD program (don’t move downwards in any case). Your MA will be a snap but the PhD will take very close to forever. And if you plan to teach you SHALL work as a TA, whether you like it or not (your program might not let you escape without doing it for a bit, and you will desperately need the experience anyway). Anyway, short story, in hindsight, do not take the cheap route just because it’s cheap, at least at the PhD level. By then you’ll have a better idea of your specific interests and you’ll want to tailor your choice to go to a school with an advisor working in a particular methodology or subfield, anyway.
Ps-- the great boomer die-off seems to have never come, especially not in any way that would give jobs to the hoards of new grads.

11

I also agree you should go to the best program that is feasible for the PhD. It matters. In the world you may be working in, that pedigree can be a “laying on of hands” that will help you immensely.

12

I am also debating this, although on an undergraduate level. For transfer, I am looking at UCs and Columbia. I am planning on doing Physical Anthropology which I can’t find any school rankings for. I was looking at Columbia because of the weight of Ivy League but as a transfer student, I wouldn’t get as much financial aid even though I am low income. Columbia likes me, I like it, but it’s soooo much money. UC tuition fees run around 7k per year, Columbia runs about 35k per year. And that doesn’t include housing, books, transportation, etc. Furthermore, according to some of the websites I’ve looked at, UC Berkeley and UC San Diego are higher rated when it comes to anthropology graduate schools and I know I want a PhD. I thought it might be easier to get into a PhD program if you have an Ivy League versus a UC, but some of my friends have told me it is better to go to college with a lot of research opportunities in general. Finally, if I do decide on primatology (which I am leaning towards), San Diego has a wild animal park and a zoo which are two. I wonder if I should just look at Bio programs since I am interested in Biological Anthropology which is very different from Cultural.

13

So Dopers young and old, what would you do? … Or would you go have fun for a few years? And those of you that have gone through this, what did you do? If you could, would you do it differently?
What makes you think you’re going to “have fun for a few years”? The first few years of grad school are usually quite intense until you can clear all the course work, qualifying exams, seminars, publishing papers, and that’s before you can even start some serious research on a dissertation. As others have said, go to the school with the best program you can get and offers you the best financial package. To get into a good PhD program ain’t easy; graduating is even harder. There will be times of great angst. I’ll give you the same advice I give to anyone starting a PhD program: Do not give up.

14

Hell, when I was in grad school I was in a good research group and had fun right from the start. The coursework was easy, the quals weren’t too hard, and it was about the most fun I ever head. I even passed quals and orals twice when my advisor died and I switched schools to go to a place to do the research I wanted to do. I’m not aware that you need to publish in most schools before you are into your PhD research. Doing additional research worth publishing is just going to delay you. I did do a survey paper with my advisor (very helpful, in that I used it for the background research for my dissertation and I got lots of citations) and we published some stuff that we had done with another student, helping him get his dissertation finished. But that was not common.

Someone going to be a professor is going to have to do the equivalent of a PhD every few years, so you better enjoy it. It is also a lot easier than trying to get grant money.

If you don’t love it, don’t do it. If you do, and you’re good enough, it could be the best time of your life.

15

You talking to me?

Undergraduate school in Barcelona, graduate school in Miami. True, in my case it was… allowed… by economic reasons (in Spain, official unemployment at the time was 24% not including recent graduates; in Miami I could live on a TAs salary), but still, this is the kind of chance that’s a lot more likely to come your way and work OK now than in, say, ten years.

Do it while you can. And post pics :slight_smile:

16

You don’t go to grad school where they don’t pay you.

17

Well, I should say I’m not delusional enough to think that graduate school will be easy; I mean, hell, if I’m intelligent enough to get in somewhere I ought to be able to make that distinction. That said, I wont be hulled up in some dark, broom closet sized room for 3-7 years, working feverishly on my dissertation by the light of a single candle or something. I know many a graduate student and just about everyone of them still has a life- a couple evenings a week, a spare Saturday afternoon, etc.

So when I say have fun, I’m clearly talking about the area I’ll be in. Yes, I could go to school in Iowa or something, but I could also go to school in Hawaii, spend my afternoons doing my reading on the beach, and spend my Saturdays hiking or snorkeling. Las Vegas (another of the options) also has a slightly more fun and exciting air to it (although, I don’t drink or gamble, so there goes that).

And as far as getting into a good school, obviously that will be the biggest factor for me. As far as the one that spawned this thread, HPU seems to be pretty well liked by a few different ranking folks (citey mc cite cite ).

Voyager, I really do think I’ll like it. I mean, maybe that will change once I actually get into it, but there’s only one way to find out. There’s just so much stuff I find myself wanting to learn and read about, that the idea of not being able to actively study anymore once I graduate really bums me out. I mean, sure, I could have a job and read a book or a study, but it will never be as intensive as my studies are now or will be in graduate school. I think that’s part of the reason I’m interested in being a professor, I’ll be afforded the opportunity to be both a teacher and a student for as long as I’d like.

I know I’ve got the public speaking chops and everyone tells me I’ve got the writing chops, so my only concern is if I can get myself to focus enough to do the required studies. Yet, I’ve always been able to focus myself in the past, so I don’t know why this would be any different. After all, I’m a competitive little squirrel.

js_africanus, very good advice. In regard to that, should I turn down anyone who wont pay me completely? Do I take 50%? 25%? You know, I’m not the world’s greatest student, so my graduating GPA will probably be somewhere between a 3.3 and a 3.4 (give or take a bit. . . hopefully give). I haven’t taken the GRE yet, but I generally do very well on standardized tests. I coach high school debate, so I’ve got community service. I speak two languages and am teaching myself a third (Arabic- I do plan to go to an intensive course next summer). All that given though, I’m not that person graduating from Stanford with a 4.0 and a political science honors degree. Being not delusional and all, it has crossed my mind that I will probably have to shell out a bit school. I’m just unsure as to what’s reasonable, if that makes any sense at all.

18

Hawaii Pacific for GRAD school? You’d be much better off going to UH Manoa, even. You have to consider size and resources. It’s a good undergrad school, but “one of the best masters programs in the west” is faint praise. If you want to hang out at the beach consider UCSB or the other southern UCs or USC or something.

19

You should probably ask CrankyAsAnOldMan, or someone in a position like hers (I think she teaches at a university, but I’m not sure).

I had just been told by my professors that you don’t go where they don’t pay you. They should pay your tuition and pay a stipend for teaching/assistant duties. One school I was accepted to would have paid me, but not covered my tuition, meaning that I’d have ended up with no money to live on. Grad school is fun, but it is intense, and you don’t have a lot of time to be working to pay room and board.

20

UCSB is a possibility, although neither of their programs (political science or history) cover exactly what I’d like to specialize in. I’ve already shot off emails to the respective program coordinators to see how willing they are to work with me. That said, Santa Barbara is expensive (to live, the tuition isn’t that bad) and isn’t really worth the money for me. I mean, Hawaii is worth paying out insane amounts for rent, but I don’t think I can say the same for icky California beaches in overpriced yuppie towns.

I’ve already started looking into other UC programs though, as I hear they may be more accepting of little ol’ me since I’m presently at a CSU. UCSD was surprisingly expensive, if I remember- plus it is expensive to live down there too. I’m definitely keeping my options open.

But it’s funny you mention USC. As I said upthread, my dad and I are at less than good terms at the moment because we disagree on the whole grad school thing. My dad got his BA from UCLA and always said I could go to any school I wanted, except USC. If I was a more bitter person, I’d totally go to USC just to spite him :D. Yet, my bitterness does not run deep enough for me to shell out $35,000 a year.